Jesus-myth or "copycat savior" myth refuted.

[Floatingaxe]

2 Corinthians 3:18

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

[Floatingaxe]

You contradicted yourself.

Interestingly, the Hebrews never believed in a messiah like Jesus, never believed in a devil, never believed in hell, and certainly never believed in pagan stories of a God-Man that died for the sins of the world.

They still don't to this day."

and

The ideas of a devil or hell crept in after the Babylonian captivity which took the intellectuals, which included the priesthood, to Babylon where such things were believed in.

But the truth is that the devil was a part of the bible at the time of Moses since he wrote Genesis. The devil is in Genesis. As I recall that was a tad bit before the Babylonian exile.

The OT Jews believed in a promised Messiah. They were still looking for Him when Jesus arrived.

You should do a bit more studying.

I am not here to change your mind, only to insure that what you believe is accurate according to all that is known.

If you are determined to believe what you have written, then go ahead on. If you would like to know what Moses thought of what he wrote in genesis, then there is a lot of information that you may not have yet heard.

The thing is, if your faith is based on such things as Moses knowing about a devil, then your faith is in jeopardy. My own faith was based on such things, and I've since lost it. If you'd rather not lose your faith, then post no further.

k

You really don't know whereof your speak. You pretend to be wise with us who know God? I think not. You are a doubtmonger, and the Lord has something to say about the likes of those. Go peddle your doubt somewhere else, because you are far from being a seeker.

[ayin jade]

My faith is based on Jesus.

If you purpose to teach things outside of the bible, then you should have another look at the terms of service.

[khalou]

For example, could you kindly give me Biblical evidence that "a true Christian's faith grows and grows from glory to glory, made more solid over time and experience with God" as is shown from Biblical text?

Genesis 22. An example of a man who was tried, and who trusted in the Lord, and who was rewarded for his faith, a faith made stronger by his experience with the Lord.

That man was treated differently than I was by the Lord. Abraham was the father of the chosen race. I am not, and neither are you. Matter of fact, the faith of the Jews is now changed by Christianity by people like you through misinterpretation of the original text, and an obvious disregard for Jewish instance that not one ancient Hebrew ever heard of a devil or a hell.

Isaiah didn't speak of the Messiah. Isaiah spoke of the king of Babylon. Of that there is no question. Except for how Christians interpret what was said. For verse after verse was all about the Babylonian king, then (according to Christians) he suddenly speaks of the coming Christ, and then immediately returns to a dialog about the Babylonian king.

If you are comfortable with that, then so be it. Of course, if God is God, then anything is possible, but the question remains- why would God want to make it so difficult to believe the truth? Is faith in God such an important thing that normally sensible people must ignore what a ten year old would see as ridiculous is fact in order to maintain their faith? Why would a God set it up that way?

And, by the way, the people who are telling me otherwise don't even know about the facts that I've studied. Is that the best that a God can do? Provide people that haven't even heard of the opposing facts? yet believe, and judge me accordingly?

k

[khalou]

You contradicted yourself.

Interestingly, the Hebrews never believed in a messiah like Jesus, never believed in a devil, never believed in hell, and certainly never believed in pagan stories of a God-Man that died for the sins of the world.

They still don't to this day."

and

The ideas of a devil or hell crept in after the Babylonian captivity which took the intellectuals, which included the priesthood, to Babylon where such things were believed in.

But the truth is that the devil was a part of the bible at the time of Moses since he wrote Genesis. The devil is in Genesis. As I recall that was a tad bit before the Babylonian exile.

The OT Jews believed in a promised Messiah. They were still looking for Him when Jesus arrived.

You should do a bit more studying.

I am not here to change your mind, only to insure that what you believe is accurate according to all that is known.

If you are determined to believe what you have written, then go ahead on. If you would like to know what Moses thought of what he wrote in genesis, then there is a lot of information that you may not have yet heard.

The thing is, if your faith is based on such things as Moses knowing about a devil, then your faith is in jeopardy. My own faith was based on such things, and I've since lost it. If you'd rather not lose your faith, then post no further.

k

You really don't know whereof your speak. You pretend to be wise with us who know God? I think not. You are a doubtmonger, and the Lord has something to say about the likes of those. Go peddle your doubt somewhere else, because you are far from being a seeker.

So, because I post what I've learned which you haven't, I'm not a seeker? Why haven't you ever heard of what the Jews have always believed and why?

How can you blaspheme truth in such a way? It doesn't bother you that I am merely looking for an answer to what I've learned, and yet you call me a pretender? If you have information against what I've said, then present it. If you don't, then don't accuse me of pretending to be wise. I assure you that I am not.

Admit it. You have never even heard of these things before. If you had, you would have an answer. All you have is accusations and an offering that I leave. I suppose Jesus should have said that to the tax collector? Well, He didn't. He loved the tax collector, which made all the difference.

I'm just going to have to assume that, either you have no explaination, and wish that I would just go away, or that you have based your faith on sand, and would rather not deal with me.

k

[ayin jade]

but the question remains- why would God want to make it so difficult to believe the truth? Is faith in God such an important thing that normally sensible people must ignore what a ten year old would see as ridiculous is fact in order to maintain their faith? Why would a God set it up that way?

Jesus addresses this issue.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables?

Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.

Mat 13:12 For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance. But whoever does not have, from him shall be taken away even that which he has.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which said, "By hearing you shall hear and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see and shall not perceive;

Mat 13:15 for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear.

Mat 13:17 For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear what you hear, and have not heard them.

[Guest man]

Another thread trashed.

[Guest yod]

Matter of fact, the faith of the Jews is now changed by Christianity by people like you through misinterpretation of the original text, and an obvious disregard for Jewish instance that not one ancient Hebrew ever heard of a devil or a hell.

Job is the oldest book of the Bible. It predates Moses by centuries....

This is from Job chapter 1

7 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

9 Then Satan answered Jehovah, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made

Isaiah didn't speak of the Messiah.

He spoke a LOT about Messiah.

11:1

48:16

49:6

52:13-15

53

55:4-6

I'm sure there are more...this is "off the top of my head"

Isaiah spoke of the king of Babylon.

Yes, he did that too.

I can talk about football and music in a paragraph without them being the same thing...

[Spunky]

Nope I've never been an atheist!

And I believe once saved always saved also so I'm

reluctant to believe you were ever a Christian

either!

Now I know hell exists so in my opinion anyone trying

to turn another away from God is asking for company!

Now think of it this way:

If someone spends there whole life denying God exists

and convinces others that he's right then that someone

dies and finds out infact there is a God and there is a

hell is he not also partly to blame for the others going

to hell with him!

So in this line of thinking I believe an atheist does want

company or they wouldn't endanger another by influencing

them that God doesn't exist!

But these are my opinions take them or leave them!

God Bless!

[LightofJesus]

You contradicted yourself.

Interestingly, the Hebrews never believed in a messiah like Jesus, never believed in a devil, never believed in hell, and certainly never believed in pagan stories of a God-Man that died for the sins of the world.

They still don't to this day."

and

The ideas of a devil or hell crept in after the Babylonian captivity which took the intellectuals, which included the priesthood, to Babylon where such things were believed in.

But the truth is that the devil was a part of the bible at the time of Moses since he wrote Genesis. The devil is in Genesis. As I recall that was a tad bit before the Babylonian exile.

The OT Jews believed in a promised Messiah. They were still looking for Him when Jesus arrived.

You should do a bit more studying.

I am not here to change your mind, only to insure that what you believe is accurate according to all that is known.

If you are determined to believe what you have written, then go ahead on. If you would like to know what Moses thought of what he wrote in genesis, then there is a lot of information that you may not have yet heard.

The thing is, if your faith is based on such things as Moses knowing about a devil, then your faith is in jeopardy. My own faith was based on such things, and I've since lost it. If you'd rather not lose your faith, then post no further.

k

You really don't know whereof your speak. You pretend to be wise with us who know God? I think not. You are a doubtmonger, and the Lord has something to say about the likes of those. Go peddle your doubt somewhere else, because you are far from being a seeker.

So, because I post what I've learned which you haven't, I'm not a seeker? Why haven't you ever heard of what the Jews have always believed and why?

How can you blaspheme truth in such a way? It doesn't bother you that I am merely looking for an answer to what I've learned, and yet you call me a pretender? If you have information against what I've said, then present it. If you don't, then don't accuse me of pretending to be wise. I assure you that I am not.

Admit it. You have never even heard of these things before. If you had, you would have an answer. All you have is accusations and an offering that I leave. I suppose Jesus should have said that to the tax collector? Well, He didn't. He loved the tax collector, which made all the difference.

I'm just going to have to assume that, either you have no explaination, and wish that I would just go away, or that you have based your faith on sand, and would rather not deal with me.

k

I usually do not enter anything in these kind of posts for they seem so contraversial and hateful. But I have to admit I do not see a whole lot of love being thrown around toward you and I want to extend my hand to you with the love of Christ for I know He loves you in every way and no matter what you say or do will ever change that. You say you were once a believer in Christ and you no longer believe, I seem to see in some of the things you write you still believe but you are actually trying not to. I am only saying that the little thing in you that is saying so much truth still lies in your heart and if you would just reach out to that truth it will prevail in your life. I do not know what has happened in your life that has made you decide to try and believe another way but I pray the Lord work in your heart to help you to reach to our God whom loves you very very much no matter what you say or do in Jesus' name!!