Eliyahuw Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I am not going to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment. I am going to stand before God at the Bema Seat! My works for Christ will be noted there. Amen on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIME Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 120 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 382 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/17/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/08/1964 Share Posted February 13, 2007 The OSAS answer can be found in this verse: 2 John 1:8-9 (NLT) 8 Watch out, so that you do not lose the prize for which we have been working so hard. Be diligent so that you will receive your full reward. 9 For if you wander beyond the teaching of Christ, you will not have fellowship with God. But if you continue in the teaching of Christ, you will have fellowship with both the Father and the Son. Scripture doesn't lie!!! Scripture is the INFALABLE WORD OF GOD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMB Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 31 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2007 People who were once believers, though weak in faith, who become apostatic, and partake in the sins that separate from the kingdom, will indeed become separate from the kingdom. Violation of a commandment does not separate, unless it is done with an unrepentant heart and in purposeful repitition. It's called betrayal. Judas did it. Which means, if we don't keep the commandments on a consistent basis, i.e. continue to work, then we will lose our salvation. Ergo, our salvation is not dependent upon our faith, but instead upon our works. No matter how you try to word it, it will always come back to this point. If continually sinning causes our salvation to be void, then our salvation is dependent upon our works. What if you simply lost your faith then? How does one lose that which does not belong to him? To each man was given a measure of faith, it is up to him what he will do with it. We are not robots without free will. He is not going to cross our free will when it comes to our eternal security. He has the power, but what He does here is through cooperation with us. Our eternal security is based on us recieving the free gift, and then not rejecting it by wandering from the faith or failing to endure. I do believe you can walk away, or are you a robot now, without free will? OR is it once you've made your free will choice to be saved, you all of the sudden now lose your ability to choose life or death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMB Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 31 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2007 Works reflect faith. If we do not nurture ourselves by following after Christ in obedience, then our faith becomes sick and can starve to death. Works reflect that, but it is not about works. So...faith reflects our works....but our works affect our faith? Again, you can't escape this view without going back to a works based salvation. I will never say that---you are reading into it. Works reflect our faith and trust in the Saviour. But that's the inevitable conclusion of your opinion - you just refuse to see it. Likewise, with what you said above, you believe in eternal security. Then by your own admission Jesus christ and God are not able to save us or keep us secure. Mate, you should probably avoid debates. I was working under THEIR presupposition and showing how their logic doesn't work. Who said it doesn't belong to that person? Faith cometh byhearing, and hearing by the word of God. When a person hears, that becomes theirs. It is freely given to them and becomes their personal belonging/property. No, faith comes by God and is started and sustained by Him. Read the New Testament - this is a clear theological point. People don't understand this when they don't know what the definition of "works" is and the the bible speaks of different kinds of works. Nice try at a cop out, but it won't work. Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Our works is our doing the will of God and according to you doing the will of God has nothing to do with our salvation. And the verse after: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure. How can we work what God is working on? Oops...darn context. If you have 1st of all faith, then you will automaticaly do the good works, out of a good heart; they are intertwined. kinda like breathing without thinking about it. You will want to do the good works ,it will give you a great since of joy to do good for others, knowing that you are pleasing the father. Pleasing the Christ will be your first prioity .if you don't really believe you will sin on a consistant basis. because you don't fear God enough to obey His commandments. And your top prioity is not pleasing the father but pleasing the lusts of the flesh. Then you believe in eternal security. To each man was given a measure of faith, it is up to him what he will do with it. We are not robots without free will. He is not going to cross our free will when it comes to our eternal security. The cute thing about this argument - zero scriptural support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2007 I do believe you can walk away, or are you a robot now, without free will? OR is it once you've made your free will choice to be saved, you all of the sudden now lose your ability to choose life or death? You don't understand how salvation works, this is why you think that. When you "accept" Christ, you give up your ability to choose. This is quite clear in scripture. Again, how is your belief not based on works? It's it a bit uncanny how EVERYONE avoided that once I brought it up? Could it be *gasp* because there is no way to avoid that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 13, 2007 But that's the inevitable conclusion of your opinion - you just refuse to see it. Likewise, with what you said above, you believe in eternal security. It is your misconclusion. It is not inevitable. It is NOT my opinion anyhow! So go figure! I do not believe in Eternal Security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2007 But that's the inevitable conclusion of your opinion - you just refuse to see it. Likewise, with what you said above, you believe in eternal security. It is your misconclusion. It is not inevitable. It is NOT my opinion anyhow! So go figure! I do not believe in Eternal Security. Then you believe in work's based salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 13, 2007 But that's the inevitable conclusion of your opinion - you just refuse to see it. Likewise, with what you said above, you believe in eternal security. It is your misconclusion. It is not inevitable. It is NOT my opinion anyhow! So go figure! I do not believe in Eternal Security. Then you believe in work's based salvation. Of course not. I believe in Salvation by the Cross and the shed blood of Christ. I already asserted that good works is an outflow of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13, 2007 But that's the inevitable conclusion of your opinion - you just refuse to see it. Likewise, with what you said above, you believe in eternal security. It is your misconclusion. It is not inevitable. It is NOT my opinion anyhow! So go figure! I do not believe in Eternal Security. Then you believe in work's based salvation. Of course not. I believe in Salvation by the Cross and the shed blood of Christ. I already asserted that good works is an outflow of faith. Then you believe in Eternal Security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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