Guest man Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 These people have one ruler, Christ...who "rules with an iron fist" these people outside of the camp do not KNOW Christ they pay homage out of duty and force only. Not out of love. Can you show me where Christ forces people to worship Him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrandnewgirl Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/18/1963 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 okay Floating axe....I agree that we will rule and reign, but if we are to be saved and in heaven, my question is who are those people who will be decieved into rebellion...are they pigmies, primitives, children-----last minute salvations?? And I understand, this is the second death, right?? When it all goes down once again. (there is an ooops....this somehow got added up above somewhere into someones reply, but this is my response)) These are those who come from the survivors of Tribulation, in my view. In 1,000 years, that will yield millions of people who will not know or experience the oppression of sin and Satan, but will only know peace, with Jesus on the Throne. They are people, plain and simple. I don't know what you mean by "last minute salvations". This is Jesus' Earthly reign we are talking about--not heaven. What I meant by "last minute" salvations...would be on their death bed, and not really knowing the Lord the way we do except to ask him to save us and get right with him before passing this life. My dad died this way this past summer. And I was wondering if these kind of folks are the ones that this may imply to. Just curious on everyones thoughts!! Thanks.....Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) These people have one ruler, Christ...who "rules with an iron fist" these people outside of the camp do not KNOW Christ they pay homage out of duty and force only. Not out of love. Can you show me where Christ forces people to worship Him? jackie stated in post #13 ***Note to any and all who read any of the posts I have placed on this topic*** what has been written by me is not a statement that I believe all of what I have written is fact. But through examination of the verses in question have simply formulated what seems logical according to me from my personal study of events leading up to these verses and the ones in question.. I cannot show you that..please read what I quoted above...What I can tell you though is that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Christ for they are deceived as usual when Satan is loosed one last time. And if Christ rules with rod of iron then it would only make sense that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Him and would hate the fact that He rules in such a way. After all Satan does manage to incite a REBELLION. Why do people ususally rebel, because they are forced into things they don't want to do, even if it is good for them. But hey, like I said this is simply summation of what logic tells me. If you have a better explanation man, please share it. Edited October 26, 2006 by jackie d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted October 26, 2006 okay Floating axe....I agree that we will rule and reign, but if we are to be saved and in heaven, my question is who are those people who will be decieved into rebellion...are they pigmies, primitives, children-----last minute salvations?? And I understand, this is the second death, right?? When it all goes down once again. (there is an ooops....this somehow got added up above somewhere into someones reply, but this is my response)) These are those who come from the survivors of Tribulation, in my view. In 1,000 years, that will yield millions of people who will not know or experience the oppression of sin and Satan, but will only know peace, with Jesus on the Throne. They are people, plain and simple. I don't know what you mean by "last minute salvations". This is Jesus' Earthly reign we are talking about--not heaven. What I meant by "last minute" salvations...would be on their death bed, and not really knowing the Lord the way we do except to ask him to save us and get right with him before passing this life. My dad died this way this past summer. And I was wondering if these kind of folks are the ones that this may imply to. Just curious on everyones thoughts!! Thanks.....Girl I suppose my answer is, "not really", as we are dealing with living people, not those who have passed on--not their spirits, but actual living human beings who live during the millennial reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 These people have one ruler, Christ...who "rules with an iron fist" these people outside of the camp do not KNOW Christ they pay homage out of duty and force only. Not out of love. Can you show me where Christ forces people to worship Him? jackie stated in post #13 ***Note to any and all who read any of the posts I have placed on this topic*** what has been written by me is not a statement that I believe all of what I have written is fact. But through examination of the verses in question have simply formulated what seems logical according to me from my personal study of events leading up to these verses and the ones in question.. I cannot show you that..please read what I quoted above...What I can tell you though is that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Christ for they are deceived as usual when Satan is loosed one last time. And if Christ rules with rod of iron then it would only make sense that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Him and would hate the fact that He rules in such a way. After all Satan does manage to incite a REBELLION. Why do people ususally rebel, because they are forced into things they don't want to do, even if it is good for them. But hey, like I said this is simply summation of what logic tells me. If you have a better explanation man, please share it. Christ doesn't force Himself on anyone. If He did, His death would be meaningless. Many of the things in Rev. overlap one another. It is a hard book to understand. I've been studying it for years and it still confuses me. I don't know how to say this without sounding rude and please believe me when I say it is not my intention. If you do not believe in what you are saying, you shouldn't say it. There are many young believers on this site. Many of which are simply passing through. Your words are based on your logic. there is nothing in scripture to back them up. If a young believer, someone who has very little understanding of the Word, were to read your post and take it as fact, and then go out and teach others what they believed to be true, how do you think God would feel about that? We have to be careful what we put on these boards. If you truly believe what you're saying, then go for it. If you are unsure, then I would hold off until you know for sure. I know what you posted is just your opinion and maybe I'm over reacting, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Once those words get into someone elses head, you can't take them back. As for the topic....I am unsure of what to say, so I kept my belief's to myself. I haven't really given it any thought and haven't studied it enough to say for sure. Please don't take this the wrong way....I am not coming down on you. We just need to be careful of what we teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie d Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,081 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/08/1967 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) These people have one ruler, Christ...who "rules with an iron fist" these people outside of the camp do not KNOW Christ they pay homage out of duty and force only. Not out of love. Can you show me where Christ forces people to worship Him? jackie stated in post #13 ***Note to any and all who read any of the posts I have placed on this topic*** what has been written by me is not a statement that I believe all of what I have written is fact. But through examination of the verses in question have simply formulated what seems logical according to me from my personal study of events leading up to these verses and the ones in question.. I cannot show you that..please read what I quoted above...What I can tell you though is that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Christ for they are deceived as usual when Satan is loosed one last time. And if Christ rules with rod of iron then it would only make sense that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Him and would hate the fact that He rules in such a way. After all Satan does manage to incite a REBELLION. Why do people ususally rebel, because they are forced into things they don't want to do, even if it is good for them. But hey, like I said this is simply summation of what logic tells me. If you have a better explanation man, please share it. Christ doesn't force Himself on anyone. If He did, His death would be meaningless. Many of the things in Rev. overlap one another. It is a hard book to understand. I've been studying it for years and it still confuses me. I don't know how to say this without sounding rude and please believe me when I say it is not my intention. If you do not believe in what you are saying, you shouldn't say it. There are many young believers on this site. Many of which are simply passing through. Your words are based on your logic. there is nothing in scripture to back them up. If a young believer, someone who has very little understanding of the Word, were to read your post and take it as fact, and then go out and teach others what they believed to be true, how do you think God would feel about that? We have to be careful what we put on these boards. If you truly believe what you're saying, then go for it. If you are unsure, then I would hold off until you know for sure. I know what you posted is just your opinion and maybe I'm over reacting, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Once those words get into someone elses head, you can't take them back. As for the topic....I am unsure of what to say, so I kept my belief's to myself. I haven't really given it any thought and haven't studied it enough to say for sure. Please don't take this the wrong way....I am not coming down on you. We just need to be careful of what we teach. Well thank you for your input, man I will keep what you have said in mind. and you are right, when a person says something it cannot be taken back. Words you might want to keep in mind yourself. Revelation 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Because I state that Christ might force those outside to obey Him does not mean that He is some kind of cruel ruler. But a ruler is a ruler and as we see in today's world nobody wants to be told what to do. Christ will be a law maker, He will rule the world...His laws will be the only laws. Which will have to be obeyed, law breakers are punished. Do you really think that "rules with a rod of iron" could possibly mean anything else? If you do, please tell me how? And how do you suppose, if Christ is the "Ruler with a Rod of Iron", the nations will respond to SATAN when he is loosed for this short time to come against the "Ruler with a Rod of Iron" if not through rebellion against Him because of how He rules? By this time most of us should have a very good idea how satan works...even you. Again that is logic. anyhow, until I am shown or find something else in scripture, as I said I can only-yes through logic-presume that this is what is meant by these words. The people of the world are forced to obey Christ and His laws. Have a blessed day Edited October 26, 2006 by jackie d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I don' t know, I think the internet is okay for some speculation. There is much about prophesy we are not going to ever understand nor agree upon. If we only post things we are sure about we might as well stop posting altogether. Among the many Christian groups today, there is not one agreed to doctrine concerning Revelation. There are many who claim that ALL of Revelation is simply a dream vision and should be taken methaphorically only, others are more literal. But this is a complex and interesting book. So I don't think we are going to get agreement on it, but we can explore it with I think good results. To do that I think it is okay to discuss ideas we may have which flow from scripture, but we can't totally back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted October 26, 2006 A part of man's response to Jjackie d I don't know how to say this without sounding rude and please believe me when I say it is not my intention. If you do not believe in what you are saying, you shouldn't say it. There are many young believers on this site. Many of which are simply passing through. Your words are based on your logic. there is nothing in scripture to back them up. If a young believer, someone who has very little understanding of the Word, were to read your post and take it as fact, and then go out and teach others what they believed to be true, how do you think God would feel about that? Brother, the OP mentioned that she wanted feed back from her question. You say if you are not sure of what you say you are better off by not saying it. Where I am very aware of the new christians passing through, they are probably doing so from a seeking point of view. Jackie was only giving her version and wasn't stating it as fact. This a discussion board and everyone is entitled to give their own opinion as long as they make it clear it is only their opinion. From where I am watching I think that her version of events are as close to the truth as I have heard on this forum, although, like a lot uf us, she can only speculate. No stumbling block in her opinion that I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrandnewgirl Posted October 26, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 43 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/18/1963 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) These people have one ruler, Christ...who "rules with an iron fist" these people outside of the camp do not KNOW Christ they pay homage out of duty and force only. Not out of love. Can you show me where Christ forces people to worship Him? jackie stated in post #13 ***Note to any and all who read any of the posts I have placed on this topic*** what has been written by me is not a statement that I believe all of what I have written is fact. But through examination of the verses in question have simply formulated what seems logical according to me from my personal study of events leading up to these verses and the ones in question.. I cannot show you that..please read what I quoted above...What I can tell you though is that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Christ for they are deceived as usual when Satan is loosed one last time. And if Christ rules with rod of iron then it would only make sense that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Him and would hate the fact that He rules in such a way. After all Satan does manage to incite a REBELLION. Why do people ususally rebel, because they are forced into things they don't want to do, even if it is good for them. But hey, like I said this is simply summation of what logic tells me. If you have a better explanation man, please share it. Christ doesn't force Himself on anyone. If He did, His death would be meaningless. Many of the things in Rev. overlap one another. It is a hard book to understand. I've been studying it for years and it still confuses me. I don't know how to say this without sounding rude and please believe me when I say it is not my intention. If you do not believe in what you are saying, you shouldn't say it. There are many young believers on this site. Many of which are simply passing through. Your words are based on your logic. there is nothing in scripture to back them up. If a young believer, someone who has very little understanding of the Word, were to read your post and take it as fact, and then go out and teach others what they believed to be true, how do you think God would feel about that? We have to be careful what we put on these boards. If you truly believe what you're saying, then go for it. If you are unsure, then I would hold off until you know for sure. I know what you posted is just your opinion and maybe I'm over reacting, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Once those words get into someone elses head, you can't take them back. As for the topic....I am unsure of what to say, so I kept my belief's to myself. I haven't really given it any thought and haven't studied it enough to say for sure. Please don't take this the wrong way....I am not coming down on you. We just need to be careful of what we teach. Well thank you for your input, man I will keep what you have said in mind. and you are right, when a person says something it cannot be taken back. Words you might want to keep in mind yourself. Revelation 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Because I state that Christ might force those outside to obey Him does not mean that He is some kind of cruel ruler. But a ruler is a ruler and as we see in today's world nobody wants to be told what to do. Christ will be a law maker, He will rule the world...His laws will be the only laws. Which will have to be obeyed, law breakers are punished. Do you really think that "rules with a rod of iron" could possibly mean anything else? If you do, please tell me how? And how do you suppose, if Christ is the "Ruler with a Rod of Iron", the nations will respond to SATAN when he is loosed for this short time to come against the "Ruler with a Rod of Iron" if not through rebellion against Him because of how He rules? By this time most of us should have a very good idea how satan works...even you. Again that is logic. anyhow, until I am shown or find something else in scripture, as I said I can only-yes through logic-presume that this is what is meant by these words. The people of the world are forced to obey Christ and His laws. Have a blessed day I can understand what you say Jackie---about the camps and all. I have my own. My life is very similar in a sense.....I came and brought rules and boundaries to a home where the children didn't know how to do basics, and pick-up after themselves. Sure they are christian kids...believe in Jesus, but they have a tendancy to buck the system all to often. My rules are meant for good and for their health and welfare. I am teaching them things that they will and should use or do down the road. I have to be tuff....use and "iron fist", but it doesn't make me an unloving person. All that teachingand they do not follow and see the truth in what you give to them....Q - is will they follow or go their own way?? My life is an example to this. So I understand the camp thing.....and how rules with a rod of iron...it is for their own good. Gosh, I hope I remember this in heaven.....LOL....when the thousand years come up!! HUGS to ya'll!! jackie:((((Because I state that Christ might force those outside to obey Him does not mean that He is some kind of cruel ruler. But a ruler is a ruler and as we see in today's world nobody wants to be told what to do. Christ will be a law maker, He will rule the world...His laws will be the only laws. Which will have to be obeyed, law breakers are punished. ))))) Edited October 26, 2006 by abrandnewgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 These people have one ruler, Christ...who "rules with an iron fist" these people outside of the camp do not KNOW Christ they pay homage out of duty and force only. Not out of love. Can you show me where Christ forces people to worship Him? jackie stated in post #13 ***Note to any and all who read any of the posts I have placed on this topic*** what has been written by me is not a statement that I believe all of what I have written is fact. But through examination of the verses in question have simply formulated what seems logical according to me from my personal study of events leading up to these verses and the ones in question.. I cannot show you that..please read what I quoted above...What I can tell you though is that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Christ for they are deceived as usual when Satan is loosed one last time. And if Christ rules with rod of iron then it would only make sense that those who live outside of the camp do NOT know Him and would hate the fact that He rules in such a way. After all Satan does manage to incite a REBELLION. Why do people ususally rebel, because they are forced into things they don't want to do, even if it is good for them. But hey, like I said this is simply summation of what logic tells me. If you have a better explanation man, please share it. Christ doesn't force Himself on anyone. If He did, His death would be meaningless. Many of the things in Rev. overlap one another. It is a hard book to understand. I've been studying it for years and it still confuses me. I don't know how to say this without sounding rude and please believe me when I say it is not my intention. If you do not believe in what you are saying, you shouldn't say it. There are many young believers on this site. Many of which are simply passing through. Your words are based on your logic. there is nothing in scripture to back them up. If a young believer, someone who has very little understanding of the Word, were to read your post and take it as fact, and then go out and teach others what they believed to be true, how do you think God would feel about that? We have to be careful what we put on these boards. If you truly believe what you're saying, then go for it. If you are unsure, then I would hold off until you know for sure. I know what you posted is just your opinion and maybe I'm over reacting, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Once those words get into someone elses head, you can't take them back. As for the topic....I am unsure of what to say, so I kept my belief's to myself. I haven't really given it any thought and haven't studied it enough to say for sure. Please don't take this the wrong way....I am not coming down on you. We just need to be careful of what we teach. Well thank you for your input, man I will keep what you have said in mind. and you are right, when a person says something it cannot be taken back. Words you might want to keep in mind yourself. Revelation 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Because I state that Christ might force those outside to obey Him does not mean that He is some kind of cruel ruler. But a ruler is a ruler and as we see in today's world nobody wants to be told what to do. Christ will be a law maker, He will rule the world...His laws will be the only laws. Which will have to be obeyed, law breakers are punished. Do you really think that "rules with a rod of iron" could possibly mean anything else? If you do, please tell me how? And how do you suppose, if Christ is the "Ruler with a Rod of Iron", the nations will respond to SATAN when he is loosed for this short time to come against the "Ruler with a Rod of Iron" if not through rebellion against Him because of how He rules? By this time most of us should have a very good idea how satan works...even you. Again that is logic. anyhow, until I am shown or find something else in scripture, as I said I can only-yes through logic-presume that this is what is meant by these words. The people of the world are forced to obey Christ and His laws. Have a blessed day Ok, let's look at this logically. Satan is bound and cast into the abyss for 1000 years. ( Rev. 20:2 ) Christ is here on earth for those 1000 years. ( Rev. 20:6 ) Ok, since satan no longer roams the earth, the presence of evil no longer exists...it is in the abyss for a 1000 years. There would be no hatred, no anger, no animosity. The deception is gone, ( Rev. 20:3 ) and the people are no longer lied to and they are able to see the truth. For the next 1000 years they are able to live in peace and harmony with their fellow man because the deceiver no longer walks among them. Christ, the one they denied and did not believe in is here on earth and because the deception is lifted, they can see that it is really Him and not the lie they were lead to believe. Again, let's look at this logically. The sword and the rod of iron...( Rev. 19:15 ) You believe that Christ will rule over the people with a "rod of iron" an "iron fist". Make laws and force people to abide by them and worship Him. And He's going to do this for 1000 years. Food for thought. Isaiah 11:4 ...He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. ( could this be a ref. to the sword and rod of iron in Rev. 19:15? ) Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of His anger they are consumed. 2 Thess. 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. Psalms 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel. Also stated in Rev. 2:27 Could the sword and rod of iron possibly be the Word of the Lord? I'm not asking you to believe any of this. I'm not asking you to take my word for it. I'm just asking....could it be? Myself, I can't believe Christ would force anyone to do anything against their will, except for the day that they stand before God. Why would He teach a doctrine of faith, hang Himself on the cross, and then come back and force someone to worship Him? I believe the "rod of iron" is the Word of God. This is my personal belief and I push this on no one. Psalms 23 ...Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me... ( Your Word and Your Spirit, they comfort me ) Earlier in this thread I made ref. to 2 Peter 3:8...One day to the Lord is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years as one day. I'm not saying it is...but what if you looked at the 1000 years in Rev. as one day. Food for thought. That's about all I have for right now. I want to thank you for making me dig. I learn more here by accident then elsewhere by design. So let's all have a blessed day on Him in Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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