Why will so many be deceived after the 1000 yrs

[Ovedya]

I'm glad that you trust the bible. but remember that the bible was not written in English and although the writers were inspired by God, the translators weren't.

That's a cop-out. And perhaps evidence to the fact that you don't truly believe that the Bible is the complete Word of God. it's not hard to see, if that's the case, why you are so strongly led by false doctrines.

The difference between you an I is that I study the origin of the words, and compare their usages and context...

That's interesting, considering the fact that most of the persons who have dedicated themselves to the translation and study of God's Word - the ones whom many have spent years of their lives to this effort - have all arrived at conclusions which are opposite yours. Are you saying that they are wrong and you are right?

What do you say to the parts of the bible that contradict eachother? Where it says in one place the wicked will be destroyed, and thet the wicked will perish, or that they will be burnt up as opposed to being burned forever.

Either there is contradiction or the translators chose poor words to convey the original meaning.

You hold on to forever means forever, but disregard the meaning of destruction, or perish, or be burnt up.

I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying.

much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated.

So you must agree that the translators had some error.

Remember Satan is a great deciever, and the majority will be lost.

peace

You're putting words in my mouth, Tom. Are you going to ignore my questions?

[TomPJr]

I'm glad that you trust the bible. but remember that the bible was not written in English and although the writers were inspired by God, the translators weren't. The definition of a word can make a lot of difference. If someone doesn't think so I think they are just complacent or lazy.

Look who's talking about complacency! You think that God is unable to preserve His Wortd ot us? you think that He cannot see to it that the translators whose responsibility under God was to make the Word available to the world were not commandeered by the Holy Spirit?

My, how you limit the God of the universe! That is complacency and laziness of faith if I ever heard it.

've given much evidence in past posts that contradict what you teach, and say the opposite of what you teach, but all you have to say about them is that I am wrong. You say destroyed doesn't mean destroyed, perish doesn't mean perish, death doesn't mean death, burnt up doesn't mean burnt up, to be no more doesn't mean that, etc....

It sounds like you don't agree with the english translation of certain words that you choose either.

What I teach? No--what God tells us!

Where did I say destroyed doesn't mean destoyed, etc? I know words very well, and have studied myself, thank you. It should give you pause and even fear to note that you are opposing many Christians here! Sounds also like you are relying on independent study and perception, which is a dangerous folly. If you are receiving teaching along these lines, then you are being led astray.

I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying.

much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated.

The bible does not contradict itself--YOU contradict it! I don't ignore any part of what God has said to us, and I resent your inference that I do. It is you who is ignoring the plain truth and embracing what your mind conjures up as a convenient truth...a lie, because your sensibilities cannot grasp that God means business---forever and ever. Your gray matter is acting as a contradiction, refusing to accept on faith what the Word clearly tells us. The mind is a terrible thing to waste---forever.

FloatingAxe,

Are you blind?

Of course God can preserve his word. I don't limit God at all. But I do know that there is a warning in Revelation to any one who would change the scriptures. Why would he say that unless somebody would do such a thing? The other point is that There are so many different translations of the original sccriptures(different modern bibles). Are they all inspired? The original scriptures did not change, but the new translations keep changing. That is where it takes study and perserverance to learn what the inspired writers were conveying.

You seem to be getting very defensive and are being close minded and not hearing anything I am saying. I'm quite sure you will indeed take offense to the statement I just made.

and I didn't say that the bible contradicts itself. The english translations in some areas say that the wicked will be destroyed, or they will perish, or they will be burned up. I don't know what dictionary you use, but as far as I can see, in plain English, that means they will be consumed, which is another word the bible uses. These words are quite opposite of living forever in torture. So according to your beliefs, these words I just stated don't really mean destroyed, burned up, consumed, etc....

I'm don't have fear that many or even the majority of Christians here oppose me....Just because the majority believe something doesn't make it right.

de

[TomPJr]

I'm glad that you trust the bible. but remember that the bible was not written in English and although the writers were inspired by God, the translators weren't.

That's a cop-out. And perhaps evidence to the fact that you don't truly believe that the Bible is the complete Word of God. it's not hard to see, if that's the case, why you are so strongly led by false doctrines.

The difference between you an I is that I study the origin of the words, and compare their usages and context...

That's interesting, considering the fact that most of the persons who have dedicated themselves to the translation and study of God's Word - the ones whom many have spent years of their lives to this effort - have all arrived at conclusions which are opposite yours. Are you saying that they are wrong and you are right?

What do you say to the parts of the bible that contradict eachother? Where it says in one place the wicked will be destroyed, and thet the wicked will perish, or that they will be burnt up as opposed to being burned forever.

Either there is contradiction or the translators chose poor words to convey the original meaning.

You hold on to forever means forever, but disregard the meaning of destruction, or perish, or be burnt up.

I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying.

much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated.

So you must agree that the translators had some error.

Remember Satan is a great deciever, and the majority will be lost.

peace

You're putting words in my mouth, Tom. Are you going to ignore my questions?

what question? I believe that you can find the answer in my post. also read my post to F.A.

Peace,

Tom

[Floatingaxe]

Intense study? Not really. God preserves His Word. The translations are not the problem, but rather the heart of man is.

[TomPJr]

PLEASE READ.

How long will Universalists ignore these facts?

TomPJr........................did you read this????

yes

[Scarletprayers]

PLEASE READ.

How long will Universalists ignore these facts?

TomPJr........................did you read this????

yes

Well, guess I feel special now!

[TomPJr]

PLEASE READ.

How long will Universalists ignore these facts?

TomPJr........................did you read this????

yes

Well, guess I feel special now!

YOU ARE SPECIAL BECKY!

by the way...My favorite state is Tennessee....and I like todraw and paint too....

in case others are wondering why I said that, I viewed your profile.

[abrandnewgirl]

I'm glad that you trust the bible. but remember that the bible was not written in English and although the writers were inspired by God, the translators weren't. The definition of a word can make a lot of difference. If someone doesn't think so I think they are just complacent or lazy.

Look who's talking about complacency! You think that God is unable to preserve His Wortd ot us? you think that He cannot see to it that the translators whose responsibility under God was to make the Word available to the world were not commandeered by the Holy Spirit?

My, how you limit the God of the universe! That is complacency and laziness of faith if I ever heard it.

've given much evidence in past posts that contradict what you teach, and say the opposite of what you teach, but all you have to say about them is that I am wrong. You say destroyed doesn't mean destroyed, perish doesn't mean perish, death doesn't mean death, burnt up doesn't mean burnt up, to be no more doesn't mean that, etc....

It sounds like you don't agree with the english translation of certain words that you choose either.

What I teach? No--what God tells us!

Where did I say destroyed doesn't mean destoyed, etc? I know words very well, and have studied myself, thank you. It should give you pause and even fear to note that you are opposing many Christians here! Sounds also like you are relying on independent study and perception, which is a dangerous folly. If you are receiving teaching along these lines, then you are being led astray.

I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying.

much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated.

The bible does not contradict itself--YOU contradict it! I don't ignore any part of what God has said to us, and I resent your inference that I do. It is you who is ignoring the plain truth and embracing what your mind conjures up as a convenient truth...a lie, because your sensibilities cannot grasp that God means business---forever and ever. Your gray matter is acting as a contradiction, refusing to accept on faith what the Word clearly tells us. The mind is a terrible thing to waste---forever.

FloatingAxe,

Are you blind?

Of course God can preserve his word. I don't limit God at all. But I do know that there is a warning in Revelation to any one who would change the scriptures. Why would he say that unless somebody would do such a thing? The other point is that There are so many different translations of the original sccriptures(different modern bibles). Are they all inspired? The original scriptures did not change, but the new translations keep changing. That is where it takes study and perserverance to learn what the inspired writers were conveying.

You seem to be getting very defensive and are being close minded and not hearing anything I am saying. I'm quite sure you will indeed take offense to the statement I just made.

and I didn't say that the bible contradicts itself. The english translations in some areas say that the wicked will be destroyed, or they will perish, or they will be burned up. I don't know what dictionary you use, but as far as I can see, in plain English, that means they will be consumed, which is another word the bible uses. These words are quite opposite of living forever in torture. So according to your beliefs, these words I just stated don't really mean destroyed, burned up, consumed, etc....

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

So if you believe that the the wicked will be burned forever then they will not literally perish, or be consumed or be burned up, or become ashes.

So again I say that the bible does not contradict itself, just the english translations, and so it does take intense study.

and no, I don't just study on my own, but I also am not led like a puppet following blindly what the world tries to brainwash me with either.

Hey Guys!

Peace.

Let's discuss this peacefully without getting into an upheaval. Satan has a hay-day with division. Especially in the christian body. Looks like my thread took a little bit of a change in it's course.

Now Tom, I was wondering.....Are these definitions out of the dictionary, as in webster...(?) or are they from the greek/ hebrew dictionary? I couldn't help but notice you put up two other men's defintions of some words (AJ Balfour & also Thomas Hood).

God is in favor of all of us knowing interpretations....and I want to be able to do the same also. I am looking more into this, but my understanding of the concept of "perish" would be leaving this world and spending eternity in hell--forever...what I recall is that those who chose not to follow christ and reject the salvation of the Lord would indeed be separated "forever" from God the Father. And being separated from God the Father would be complete torment in itself, in a literal place called hell, forever.

Maybe you could establish your thoughts and definitions a little better so we can understand where your insights are coming from exactly. I think what I am gathering is you are taken with the definitions of these bible scholars have given...? Is that correct? Just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks,

Girl

[TomPJr]

I'm glad that you trust the bible. but remember that the bible was not written in English and although the writers were inspired by God, the translators weren't. The definition of a word can make a lot of difference. If someone doesn't think so I think they are just complacent or lazy.

Look who's talking about complacency! You think that God is unable to preserve His Wortd ot us? you think that He cannot see to it that the translators whose responsibility under God was to make the Word available to the world were not commandeered by the Holy Spirit?

My, how you limit the God of the universe! That is complacency and laziness of faith if I ever heard it.

've given much evidence in past posts that contradict what you teach, and say the opposite of what you teach, but all you have to say about them is that I am wrong. You say destroyed doesn't mean destroyed, perish doesn't mean perish, death doesn't mean death, burnt up doesn't mean burnt up, to be no more doesn't mean that, etc....

It sounds like you don't agree with the english translation of certain words that you choose either.

What I teach? No--what God tells us!

Where did I say destroyed doesn't mean destoyed, etc? I know words very well, and have studied myself, thank you. It should give you pause and even fear to note that you are opposing many Christians here! Sounds also like you are relying on independent study and perception, which is a dangerous folly. If you are receiving teaching along these lines, then you are being led astray.

I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying.

much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated.

The bible does not contradict itself--YOU contradict it! I don't ignore any part of what God has said to us, and I resent your inference that I do. It is you who is ignoring the plain truth and embracing what your mind conjures up as a convenient truth...a lie, because your sensibilities cannot grasp that God means business---forever and ever. Your gray matter is acting as a contradiction, refusing to accept on faith what the Word clearly tells us. The mind is a terrible thing to waste---forever.

FloatingAxe,

Are you blind?

Of course God can preserve his word. I don't limit God at all. But I do know that there is a warning in Revelation to any one who would change the scriptures. Why would he say that unless somebody would do such a thing? The other point is that There are so many different translations of the original sccriptures(different modern bibles). Are they all inspired? The original scriptures did not change, but the new translations keep changing. That is where it takes study and perserverance to learn what the inspired writers were conveying.

You seem to be getting very defensive and are being close minded and not hearing anything I am saying. I'm quite sure you will indeed take offense to the statement I just made.

and I didn't say that the bible contradicts itself. The english translations in some areas say that the wicked will be destroyed, or they will perish, or they will be burned up. I don't know what dictionary you use, but as far as I can see, in plain English, that means they will be consumed, which is another word the bible uses. These words are quite opposite of living forever in torture. So according to your beliefs, these words I just stated don't really mean destroyed, burned up, consumed, etc....

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

So if you believe that the the wicked will be burned forever then they will not literally perish, or be consumed or be burned up, or become ashes.

So again I say that the bible does not contradict itself, just the english translations, and so it does take intense study.

and no, I don't just study on my own, but I also am not led like a puppet following blindly what the world tries to brainwash me with either.

Hey Guys!

Peace.

Let's discuss this peacefully without getting into an upheaval. Satan has a hay-day with division. Especially in the christian body. Looks like my thread took a little bit of a change in it's course.

Now Tom, I was wondering.....Are these definitions out of the dictionary, as in webster...(?) or are they from the greek/ hebrew dictionary? I couldn't help but notice you put up two other men's defintions of some words (AJ Balfour & also Thomas Hood).

God is in favor of all of us knowing interpretations....and I want to be able to do the same also. I am looking more into this, but my understanding of the concept of "perish" would be leaving this world and spending eternity in hell--forever...what I recall is that those who chose not to follow christ and reject the salvation of the Lord would indeed be separated "forever" from God the Father. And being separated from God the Father would be complete torment in itself, in a literal place called hell, forever.

Maybe you could establish your thoughts and definitions a little better so we can understand where your insights are coming from exactly. I think what I am gathering is you are taken with the definitions of these bible scholars have given...? Is that correct? Just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks,

Girl

Hi Girl,

Yes, the definitions for perish, and destroyed, etc... are our english translations. the point that I was making is that Floating Axe said that the translators translated correctly every aspect. If thats the case you can't change destroyed, or perish, or to be burned up to be anything less than that. If the translators translated everything correctly, then there would be no appearent contradictions.

another point is that we can't just take the english translation verbatum.....either burned up, destroyed, consumed, perish, to be no more, etc... mean something else or the term eternal punishment means something else.

can't you see how the english translation of these terms are in opposition to eachother? burned up vs. tortured forever/ consumed vs. tortured forever/ turned to ashes vs. tortured forever

Does this make sense to you?

[Floatingaxe]

Maybe, Tom, you need to revisit some of the eschatological events that will occur. There will come a time of total destruction of the earth, where the wicked will be burned up--physically annihilated. Could that be where you are finding a contradiction?