seekinghiswill Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/12/1987 Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Recently I have been discussing marriage with a friend of mine. I used to believe that marriage had to take place with a ceremony where a pastor or judge performed a ceremony and was provided a legal document that stated that they had been married. I haven't found anything saying that there has to be a ceremony providing a legal document. Can a man and a woman (please lets keep it heterosexual in this topic) be married by a commitment between the man, woman, God? Or do they have to have a public ceremony? Adam and Eve didn't have to have a public ceremony. And God never made them after the fall of man. I'm looking for God inspired scriptural answers to this, not just personal opinions. I have been getting quite a few of those... but I want to know what God wants in a marriage. Edited October 25, 2006 by seekinghiswill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terter Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 473 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2006 Do you know where that verse is that says we're suppose to adhere to the laws of the land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekinghiswill Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/12/1987 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 there are several verses that state that. but the law of the land doesn't require us to be legally married before having sex. Or that a man and wife have to be legally married to live together. the law of our land seems to take a pretty neutral "do whatever you want with each other" in that aspect... am I missing something there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightofJesus Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 362 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/04/1955 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Our laws have gotten neutral only in the last 50 years or so maybe more but when I was young even divorce was not a good thing so it is not the norm the way the laws are written today, so I would adhere to what the Word of God says not what man has decided is OK. The bible shows us Jewish marriages and how even Joseph and Mary where espoused to each other. Yes it is supposed to be a legal and public thing just like we are not to be ashamed to say we belong to Jesus!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneV Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 720 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1947 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi SeekingHiswill, The best I can offer is the following:- Matthew 5:31 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a letter of divorce.' & 32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Hebrews 13:4 Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery. Also look up Proverbs 6:24 and what Thomas M. Strouse writes seems to make sense to me.... "The Bible and Marriage God instituted marriage with the first man and woman, Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:20-24). The Bible formula for marriage is "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (v.24). There are three factors delineated for a marriage union. The "leaving" delineates the social factor, the "cleaving" delineates the spiritual factor, and the "weaving" delineates the sexual factor. All three factors are necessary to constitute a Biblical marriage. The social factor involves a public awareness that the couple is married. This awareness is usually conveyed by a public ceremony or document. The spiritual factor involves a unity of mind and heart on the major matters of life. The sexual factor involves an intimate relationship which is monogamous and permanent. " Hope this in some way assists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekinghiswill Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/12/1987 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 Yes I agree that it shouldn't be something you are ashamed of at all. Marriage is a wonderful blessing given to us from God. and making your covenant known before the public is not something we should avoid. But do we have to do it through a traditional marriage or legal means. there were other instances where God took the role of judge/pastor (Adam and Eve). Does God change his mind or give exceptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seekinghiswill Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/12/1987 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Hi SeekingHiswill, The best I can offer is the following:- Matthew 5:31 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a letter of divorce.' & 32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Hebrews 13:4 Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery. Also look up Proverbs 6:24 and what Thomas M. Strouse writes seems to make sense to me.... "The Bible and Marriage God instituted marriage with the first man and woman, Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:20-24). The Bible formula for marriage is "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (v.24). There are three factors delineated for a marriage union. The "leaving" delineates the social factor, the "cleaving" delineates the spiritual factor, and the "weaving" delineates the sexual factor. All three factors are necessary to constitute a Biblical marriage. The social factor involves a public awareness that the couple is married. This awareness is usually conveyed by a public ceremony or document. The spiritual factor involves a unity of mind and heart on the major matters of life. The sexual factor involves an intimate relationship which is monogamous and permanent. " Hope this in some way assists That makes sense about leaving and cleaving. I think I've come to my conclusion that that is the basic formula as well. But what I'm struggling with is that I know a couple that is living together without the traditional means of marriage. they both have made their covenant know to each other, God, and those around them.... I'm finding myself between a rock and a hard place here in my discussion with my friend. God doesn't seem to give any more information than leaving your parents and cleaving to your husband/wife... so I keep falling away from the belief that you have to be married by a traditional ceremony (not saying one shouldn't or that it's better not to be) before living together and taking each other as husband/wife. I can't see God deeming their relationship sinful as others have thought it to be... Edited October 26, 2006 by seekinghiswill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I am a son of God Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Jesus when he spoke of marriage either in a parable or about the bride (church) .. often talk about the marriage feast eg. Mat 22:2 "The Kingdom of heaven is like this. Once there was a king who prepared a wedding feast for his son. Mat 22:4 So he sent other servants with this message for the guests: 'My feast is ready now; my steers and prize calves have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast!' Mat 25:10 So the foolish ones went off to buy some oil; and while they were gone, the bridegroom arrived. The five who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast, and the door was closed. The first miracle that Jesus performed was at a wedding ... there are so many scripture that Jesus talks about weddings ... to me that says that they must be important to him .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Hi SeekingHiswill, The best I can offer is the following:- Matthew 5:31 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a letter of divorce.' & 32 But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Hebrews 13:4 Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery. Also look up Proverbs 6:24 and what Thomas M. Strouse writes seems to make sense to me.... "The Bible and Marriage God instituted marriage with the first man and woman, Adam and Eve (Gen. 2:20-24). The Bible formula for marriage is "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" (v.24). There are three factors delineated for a marriage union. The "leaving" delineates the social factor, the "cleaving" delineates the spiritual factor, and the "weaving" delineates the sexual factor. All three factors are necessary to constitute a Biblical marriage. The social factor involves a public awareness that the couple is married. This awareness is usually conveyed by a public ceremony or document. The spiritual factor involves a unity of mind and heart on the major matters of life. The sexual factor involves an intimate relationship which is monogamous and permanent. " Hope this in some way assists That makes sense about leaving and cleaving. I think I've come to my conclusion that that is the basic formula as well. But what I'm struggling with is that I know a couple that is living together without the traditional means of marriage. they both have made their covenant know to each other, God, and those around them.... I'm finding myself between a rock and a hard place here in my discussion with my friend. God doesn't seem to give any more information than leaving your parents and cleaving to your husband/wife... so I keep falling away from the belief that you have to be married (not saying one shouldn't or that it's better not to be) before living together and taking each other as husband/wife. I can't see God deeming their relationship sinful as others have thought it to be... Christ did reference marriage, and that would of course be the Jewish wedding, a very public affair blessed by God. It also included a legal and cultural binding of those two people. At that time they joined their assets, marriage did mean something and Christ talked about it. For example why would the topic of divorce and a letter of divorce come up, if there was not something legal and binding in the marriage itself? Paul spoke of and used the word marriage, which once again had a specific meaning at that time, it meant someone that had a wedding, a Jewish wedding would have been the context and it meant a legal and cultural binding. I think it was assumed that is what marriage was and is today, we don't have to have the details spelled out for us. If a couple wants to pass up on all of the legal benefits of their marriage I think that is okay, as long as they have made a public promise of life long love and fidelity, and also joined themselves legally joining all of their assets. It is a covenant between them and God and the Church, but they would also have to join all of their assets, and be legally bound to one another, which can be expensive. But I have never seen a case of a couple doing that, one usually at core does not really want to be fully married. I would be very suspicious of the motives for not being legally married, there is no downside really to the 1/2 of an hour or so it would take to get a legally recognized marriage, and there are many benefits, starting with health care at work, social security survivor benefits, inheritance, issues surrounding children etc. Why would a person pass up those benefits? Unless of course what they are really worried about is the cost of a divorce and at the bottom of their heart don't really want to make a true commitment to the other person. That is usually the case and then they are Christians so they construct this huge rationalization and try to base it on scripture, when what one of them really wants is to simply co-habitate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darski Posted October 25, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1948 Share Posted October 25, 2006 An interesting read: http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1087 I find it interesting that a marriage contract continues to this day. There has to be something behind all this; but scripture...hmmnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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