Who Is Babylon?? according to Jeremiah 50-51

[Guest]

Dear Brother

I am so thankful for your fellowship.

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" (Psalms 133:1)

I agree with the 'hot" evaluation of Sunny Old Fresno!

I stopped in this city in 1967 for a short visit while I helped to survey in "The Four Laner" (Highway 168). I expected to stay just for two years! Blew that time line just a tick!

I use to visit your College with friends of mine and, occasionally, I would catch one of the basketball games there.

In 1969, I even owned an IH pickup truck.

As for the judgment by others of The Post of Duty God has placed you in today, that is His business and His business alone. Your brothers and sisters here at Worthy totally understand the call to His Service is only at His Will! You are to serve where your Lord and Savior wants you to serve, no matter what others may think! You can relax, take off your shoes, pour a cup of coffee and visit a spell!

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:15-16)

My darling wife of 37 years (soon to be 38 years) was raised RC. She is a born again Christian.

I was raised Baptist. I am a born again Christian.

If God can forgive a Baptist for being a Baptist, he can forgive a Catholic for being a Catholic!

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Corinthians 2:2)

I am still a Pre-Tribulation believer. I know Christians, Jews and innocences around the world are being persecuted even as we fellowship! I also know The Holy Ghost is blowing The Mighty Winds of Salvation throughout The Lands of Israel, Ishmael, India, China and The Pacific Rim Nations.

Also, no matter what I think, God will have His Timing in all things. What I believe about the timing of The Rapture should have no effect on my fellowship with other believers. In fact, if I believe the time is short for the Church on this earth, I should make every effort to abide in Jesus and to love my brothers and sisters and to work for the salvation of others and to obey my Lord and Savior. Tonight maybe the last chance I have to add to His Kingdom, to serve Him on earth before I go home!

Love you Brother!

[Arthur Durnan]

So let me pin your point down: you don't appreciate folk who always insist on THEIR point of view - in fact, if I understand you correctly, you even left a church over it? However it's kinda alright for you to kindly denounce the pre-tribulational return of the Lord Jesus Christ for His Church. Hmm. My way or the highway? Interesting to say the least. Whatever, God bless you as you live for Him. "The coming of the Lord draws nigh!"

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Masked Chris]

I have a new thread here for us. please give your strong opinions and beliefs. I have been reading Jeremiah 50-51 and does anyone think this could pertain to the United States??

Do you know that back in 1988 Saddam Huissein believed he was Nebuchadnezzar for our day brought back with a message??

How many of you remember his claims back then? I sure do! Where is America in this picture?

God bless, let's stay peaceful....Girl

Babylon stands for Babylon. The prophesy was fullfilled in anceint Isreal when Babylon was destroied and it has no future meaning what-so-ever. Don't buy into the teachings of false profits.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, Scripture interprets Scripture. The problem with the above post is that it just amounts to stringing a bunch of verses together that have absolutely no relation to one another from any meaningful literary standpoint. There is no meaningful connection between the verses from Exodus, Matthew, and Lamenations with Revelation 17.

Scipture interprets Scripture, but there are rules as to how that principle operates. If anyone is going to grab some verses from here and there, and claim they interpret each other, then a substantive connection as to be demonstrated otherwise the "interpretation" is invalid. For example, if Revelation 17 referenced the passages from Lamenations or Exodus, then a case could made for pairing those passages with Revelation 17. Scripture interprets Scripture, but the Bible is very good about indicating which Scriopture interprets which Scipture. We do not have the right to decide. Only the text itself can tell us when this principle can operate. To arbitrarily pair verses together as is done above, is poor handling of Scripture.

God refers to Israel and Jerusalem figuratively in the OT as Babylon, Egypt, Sodom and calls Israel by those names because of the sin they were guilty of at that time. However, that does not warrant finding the name "Babylon" in the NT pinning it as Jerusalem. Anyone can string a bunch of verses together like lights on a Christmas tree and make the Bible appear to say anything they want. Only when it can be demonstrated that two verses are speaking about the same subject matter and that the authors of each verse had the same object in view when they penned those verses, can they be used to to "interpret" each other. Only then are they truly parallel passages. Otherwise you are just making up something out of whole cloth and are claiming that the Bible says something that it really doesn't say.

There are many, including Christians who support the building of this temple and many will be deceived into following a false Christ once it has been erected.

Sorry to have to confuse you with the facts, but what you fail to point out is that it is a radical group of Christians who do not belong to mainline denominations, and some misguided leaders like John Hagee. We used have one of them on this board. His name was David Ben Ariel. He was not even Jewish but went to Israel and tried to incite riots at the Temple Mount area. Most of them are Messianic extremists. Most Christian Zionists do not support the rebuilding of the Temple. The few that do are wrong for doing so. They do not represent the mainstream who love Israel from pure motives. BTW, from the Jewish end of it, they are a minority as well. Most Jews do not support the rebuilding of the Temple as over 80% of the Jews in Israel are secular of the remaing 20% who do claim a religion, it is divided among various groups. So the ones who do support this misguided effort, are far and away pretty much negligible in numbers.

[Guest]

" Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Revelation 4:11)

This is Cool!

Of course, pre, mid, post , per wrath or partial rapture. it is still all about Jesus!

And, I think no matter your understanding, when Jesus shouts, we are gone! Period!

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Pretribulationism is dangerous doctrine. If your still here, to a pre-tribber that means the Antichrist is not yet revealed and the tribulation has not yet started.

This statement of dire warning dear brother really confuses me.

What is the danger"

All views still are all about Jesus!

What difference is it to me to know who The Antichrist is?

To my knowledge, the Bible does not tell me that I should have anything to do with him?

Do you know sometime special from the Holy Bible that I need to know about this warfare?

I don't see anywhere in The Book that either The Church nor The Tribulation Saints will have anything to do with The Antichrist? Except for lost heads that is.

The only thing I see is the overwhelming need to show Jesus to the world because the time is incredibility short and eternity is really, really long!

"Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest." (Luke 10:2)

"Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time." (Colossians 4:5)

I do see a huge difference between The Church and Tribulation Saints

The Church.....

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11)

"......and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18)

So The Holy Scripture tells me The Church will never be overcome!

The Tribulation Saints.....

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." (Revelation 13:7)

But, The Holy Scripture tells me The Tribulation Saints will be overcome!

[JesusisGod2]

There are many people today who believe that America is Babylon and I for one do not agree. In my personal opinion and understanding of the scriptures Babylon is just that, Babylon.

Anyway, here is a pretty good site that is a good read. I personally agree with himon a lot of issues that I have read on his site thus far, I havent read all his stuff yet but what I have read is pretty solid.

Judge for yourselves. Here is the link for Why America is not Babylon.

Link Here

I would be interested in your feed back.

[JesusisGod2]

I came to my conclusions about Jerusalem being mystery Babylon through my own study. Frankly I was astonished when I realized what scripture was saying about mystery Babylon when I compared scripture to scripture.

Since others are posting links to sites supporting their views I did a google to see if anyone else out there might have come to the same conclusion as I. I found that indeed there were.

Here is one link. I have not looked over the entire site, but the page I am linking to references some of the same verses I have used on this thread.

http://www.lookup.org/mysterybabylon.htm

Actually I dont know why so many people refer to it as 'Mystery Baylon" it is never in the scriptures refered to as "Mystery Baylon".

Lets look at the scripture:

Revelation 17:4-6

4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.[a] 5 And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

If you look at the text, what was written on her head was

1) Mystery and then a comma ,,,,

2) Babylon the great and then a comma

3) THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Mystery and Babylon the great are two seperate titles or names that were written on her forhead.

What was written is Mystery, Babylon the great,

This is very important, for many seem to think that it is Mystery Babylon, and this leads to speculation on who Babylon is, when in fact Babylon the great is just that, Babylon.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but many people keep reading something that just aint there, and this leads to such speculation that America is Babylon, or Korea, or France, or whatever because they look at the immorality of that particular country, when the fact is all the world is very immoral and full of sin and will be judged by God.

America aint right but it is not Babylon

Its not Babylon thats the mystery, but it is the mystery that is the mystery.

[followerofjesus]

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that itis near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. '

[followerofjesus]

that was my point. I'm glad you received that.

[followerofjesus]

I would like someone to explain that scripture as it relates to the rapture that people are so enthusiastic about.