What do you object to regarding Christianity and Jesus?

[saint_spoz]

but without leadership we can not find the path to salvation this is shown in the old testament with moses being the leader of his people to salvation.

[billie]

but without leadership we can not find the path to salvation this is shown in the old testament with moses being the leader of his people to salvation.

Jesus is the path to salvation. He said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

[ayin jade]

A leader can help you learn about Him, and can help you understand Him, but not everyone who has been born again had someone like a priest or pastor to do that. Some have read the bible, some have learned about Jesus in other ways. What is important is that we are saved, that He loves us, that we are born again and are children of God.

[TheProcess]

In another thread I posted to TheProcess

Why not just list to us the things you find immoral? Tell us what parts you dont like. Lets discuss those things.

I would like to have a civil, open, discussion into the things that TheProcess finds immoral about Christianity (his words). Any one is welcome to post their objections about Jesus for discussion. I encourage all believers to post in this thread too. All to His praise and glory.

I started a thread myself to continue the discussion. It was closed for no reason at all. Will this thread be closed? Will anything I post be removed?

I am not sure there is much point using this forum.

[TheProcess]

I will start off with calvinism, which TheProcess brought up in another thread. By your own words TP, you have rejected the notion of calvinism as valid doctrine. Many Christians reject that as valid doctrine too, yet they are solid believers. This should not be an obstacle to you finding faith in Jesus.

What other objections do you have regarding Christianity?

Well I certainly reject Calvinism in a way, but it may be the teaching of the Bible, it may be genuine Christianity.

[TheProcess]

In another thread I posted to TheProcess

Why not just list to us the things you find immoral? Tell us what parts you dont like. Lets discuss those things.

Presumably you believe that: (a) God is perfectly good, and (b) everything in the Bible is in keeping with this. (Correct me if I am wrong.) Let me ask you, are there some things that if God did them, they would be immoral? If so, what things would be immoral for God to do?

[Joshua-777]

What your an expert now? you know how god thinks? ok keep ****EDIT**** out priests and see how far you get in the afterlife.

Moderators note;

Please leave off the more coarse commenatry in the future.

Hey, A priest is a good thing, In my case preachers, They are good if they stick to Gods word, but they are nothing without Christ, They cant save you, or lead you to the afterlife, Only Jesus alone, they can guide you with what is already written, but it's you and Christ Alone that saves you, Without a priest, Ya I would get far in the afterlife, cause a priest can't take me there, only Christ can. They do speak the word, but it's your choice to listen, How far we get to the afterlife with out them? Well how much do we follow Jesus?

[Joshua-777]

In another thread I posted to TheProcess

Why not just list to us the things you find immoral? Tell us what parts you dont like. Lets discuss those things.

Presumably you believe that: (a) God is perfectly good, and (b) everything in the Bible is in keeping with this. (Correct me if I am wrong.) Let me ask you, are there some things that if God did them, they would be immoral? If so, what things would be immoral for God to do?

Imorality, and Morality, he made the lines of imorality, and morality, He does not tempt anyone for God can not be tempted. LOL, he created us, he is perfect, we are a creation, HE loves you, yes even you.

[Joshua-777]

Why not just list to us the things you find immoral? Tell us what parts you dont like. Lets discuss those things.

I have a lot of qualms with Christianity and the behavior of Christians, but I'll just start with my biggest one:

The Hypocricy of Worshipers

Jesus was a truly great man. "Turn the other cheek." "Love thine enemies." These kinds of sayings were unheard of in the Middle East during Jesus' lifetime. His revolutionary teachings on compassion have led some Buddhists to consider Christ a bodhisattva, an enlightened being like the Buddha who, out of compassion, temporarily forgoes nirvana in order to save others. This man got Christianity off to a great start.

But, despite everything Jesus said, Christianity led a bloody history thereafter. It not only served the oppressed, but the oppressors as well. The crusades. The inquisition. The holocaust. Christ would not have condoned these things, yet they all occurred in his name. How did these things happen? Even in modern times, in America, Christians largely supported the war in Iraq at its outset. Christians. Supporting war.

Selective Interpretation

I think this next problem might very well explain the last one. Christianity isn't just about Christ, it's also about the Old Testament and other biblical writings, which were no so peaceful and loving. It seems like people pick out whatever passages support their motives. Seen this way, Christianity doesn't really change worshipers for the better, it just crystalizes their tendencies, for better or worse. It gives people I would consider "evil" a sense of self-righteousness. It can be selectively used to "justify" evil acts, as well as good ones. It has been used for centuries to demonize one's enemy in war, so that they can be fought and killed as though they were subhuman. I think Christianity is often used to destroy the sense of morality that I think underlies--and predates--all religions. It can actually make people and peoples worse.

And, to some extent, I believe it has.

Dividing God's Children

Christianity has many sects, and Christianity itself could be considered a radical sect of Judaism. Even though all these sects focus on the Bible, some of their beliefs seem irreconciliable. In fact, many sects have killed one another based on relatively small differences in doctrine and ritual. Oftentimes different sects will claim the others are worshiping an entirely different God, rather than worshiping the same God a different way. Isn't Christianity supposed to unite people? How, then, has it done such a good job in tearing people apart?

Trivializing Life on Earth

When one considers Earth to be an imperfect shadow of the heavens, Earth and all things therein seem to lose their value. The planet we live on and the life we share it with are considerably less important if we think an eternal plane awaits us thereafter. Countless clerics and worshipers have forgone earthly pleasures, even innocent ones, in anticipation of the eternal afterlife. To me this is crazy.

Christianity has also traditionally lacked respect and responsibility for the natural world. Animals are not seen by the Bible as a form of life so much as life-like objects, designed for our disposal. The Christian objectification of nature combined with science's invasive technologies have helped us devastate the Earth. It is amazing how many people think we really have no responsibility to the planet on which we live. By contrast, many other religions encourage respect of the environment and animals. See Buddhist and Hindu ahimsa, good treatment for all living thing. While in Christianity, animals are soulless and even unfeeling, other religions accurately recognize our connection to other life--we are animals, after all.

I have a lot of problems with Christianity.

The Hypocricy of Worshipers

Well, I have a question, which is easier for you? To hate someone who is easy to hate? or to love someone who's impossible to love? How bout you, turing the other cheek? Now, whats funny is that Christianity is all abotu love, well stupid people blinded by the world, and darkness forget that it is all about the love, hey we are all sinners and all imperfect. And hahaha the crusaders, did you know they we'rnt really christian? Well that whole thing started because the king wanted Christians to rule and everyone to be Christian, yes condoned murder. YOU CANNOT MURDER IN THE NAME OF JESUS, anyone who has or does is a sinner, and does not know Jesus. The holocaust? Are you seriously? WOw I gues that anyone can claim to be a christian, if you believe that you seriouslu need to get your head checked. "Hitler, NOT CHRISTIAN" a true christian is seen by their love, not by mass geniside. You are missing the point, and how that "The Devil will come as an angel of the Light" War on Iraq, well I do feel it has good, and has bad in it.

Selective Interpretation

Man is all evil, and we all fall short of the Glory of God, well I have seen aithiests just as proud. It all depends on the person. Ya see a big problem is that people take a verse out of the bible, that alone the verse can be twisted when your not looking at what the chapter is about, the whole old testiment leads to the new. Christ is the fulfillment of the OT. Now to s big lession in live, God is Real, Obey Him, Blessed are the Meek, Do not be wise, or proud in your own understanding, hmm well it seems the bible is against self righteousness, and it's agaisnt pride. People are naturaly sinful and we are all sinners. When given knowledge to free us, ya we can twist it, But of we do are we really accepting the truth in the bible? Or twisting it to our own selves? Now Christ is alive today, and he works in people who believe by a personal relationship, and by the holy spirit living in us, now a worldly mind of the bible is pointless, the carnal mind cannot understand the ways of the spirit.

Dividing God's Children

Yup there are many many churches that base they're doctrine on tradition rather than the word, there are many sects that look at the bile from a carnal mind not understanding, they twist it, thats why I feel they need to wake up and realize that we as christians are to live in Love and unity, not war and hate. Now, people are stupid, and yes guess what religion it's self is evil, I dont believe in religion, I believe in A living God that works through my life, Deeper than religion.

Trivializing Life on Earth

Did you miss the first book in the bible? This is clearly based off personal opinion, cause It is our Job as humans to take care of the Earth, and yes It even states that animals have spirits, that go back to the ground. Now hmmm You are missing this whole point. Ya, people in general dont take care of the earth, as Gods creation we are suposed to take care of the earth. Ignorance to this is just ignorance, not christians.

[Emily~Anne]

Why not just list to us the things you find immoral? Tell us what parts you dont like. Lets discuss those things.

Trivializing Life on Earth

When one considers Earth to be an imperfect shadow of the heavens, Earth and all things therein seem to lose their value. The planet we live on and the life we share it with are considerably less important if we think an eternal plane awaits us thereafter. Countless clerics and worshipers have forgone earthly pleasures, even innocent ones, in anticipation of the eternal afterlife. To me this is crazy.

Christianity has also traditionally lacked respect and responsibility for the natural world. Animals are not seen by the Bible as a form of life so much as soulless life-like objects. Some Christians even think the entire natural world has been designed for our disposal. The Christian objectification of nature combined with science's invasive technologies have helped us devastate the Earth. It is amazing how many people think we really have no responsibility to the planet on which we live. By contrast, many other religions encourage respect of the environment and animals. See Buddhist and Hindu ahimsa, good treatment for all living things. While in Christianity, animals are soulless and even unfeeling, other religions accurately recognize our connection to other life--we are animals, after all.

I have a lot of problems with Christianity. And even if you write off all of these problems as malpractice, or corruption, or "false faith", it doesn't change the fact that Christianity is very easily corruptible. It is a weapon as well as a tool.

Well I am a Christian and I very much respect animals and earth. They are all created by God. Here is something I posted elsewhere:

I just don't see how anyone can look at God's creation in all it's glory and splendor and not see the creator behind it all. I have seen beautiful endless mountains covered in tall pine trees, I have seen the sunrise over water and the beautiful reflection on the water. I have seen the beautiful colors of all the leaves in the fall and how so intricately detailed each one is if you stop and take the time to look. I have seen gorgeous flowing waterfalls and watched waves lapping at the beach.

I grew up in Maine and I lived in Idaho for a few years. We are big on camping, we go as much as we can. And I cease to be amazed at what an amazing artist our God is. I was hoping to post some beautiful pictures here, but it seems I can't. Do you ever stop and look at mushrooms? There are such a variety and they are so beautiful. They are truly art, as all of God's creation is. There never has been and never will be a more talented artist than God!

Also, we use cloth diapers, recycle, use environmentally friendly household products, (such as Seventh Generation and Bio-Kleen)buy local produce as much as possible, eat only free-range meat, never use any poisons on our lawn, oh, and did I mention I (a Christian!) worked for the Humane Society for 3 years until the day I gave birth to my first born?

We frequently go on nature hikes, sometimes we are out there by 7am so as to see as many birds, deer, turkey, etc. as possible. One time we were on one of our very early hikes and a turkey vulture landed on a branch just a few feet above us and looked down at us with one of his ugly eyes, it was AWESOME! WE have several different kinds of bird/squirrel feeders at our house and my youngest who is 2 can already name several of the bird species. We have rescued injured wildlife on the side of the road. Either by staying with them and covering them with an army blanket we keep in the van specially for this purpose, and staying with them until a police officer puts them out of their misery (I once waited almost 2 hours). Or if the animal is small enough, we take them to a rehabber. I keep disposable gloves in the van because I actually remove fairly fresh roadkill from the roadside so that vultures etc. do not get injured trying to eat roadkill, or poisoned from the salt that is put on the roads in the winter.

Yes I look forward to being in heaven someday, but that does not mean I am not capable of enjoying and having respect for this part of God's creation while I am here.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Emily Anne