nice board. Introduction

[Guest foxjoe]

I became a Christian (born again) in 1988.

I have had problems with my Faith however feel that I may be helpful to seekers on this board.

Truth seeker, I guess that shoulda been my nick. Always a seeker of truth, and good moral values.

I signed up because I have a real problem, and would like some help with a good adequate resolution. You see, I read a secular book called "letter to a Christian Nation".

This has really disturbed my foundations and was wondering if anyone could give me some insight. Help in keeping my Faith solid, not shaken, or stirred as it is now. (Bond is coming out)

If we need to move this down to a different forum topic, please do so. I have some hard questions.

[mrp1948]

Haven't read the book however I suggest you do what we need to do with everything we encounter in this world verify and validate what it says with scripture. The enemy will throw anything he can in our path to derail our walk with God. Even Jesus used scripture to fend off the devil during his time of temptation I would say that if that was the method he used it is a pretty good bet it is the one we should be using also. Would love to see some of your questions and welcome to Worthy. God Bless

[ayin jade]

The author of the book states that his purpose is to to demolish the intellectual and moral pretensions of Christianity in its most committed forms. Seems to me that isnt a book anyone should be reading to start with. Since you can see its source is bad to begin with, then you should trust that the Lord is right, and this guy is wrong.

[Guest foxjoe]

avinJade -- Since you can see its source is bad to begin with

Like I said, I read the book. Why is it that your assumption right off the bat, "the source is bad"? Sam pointed out some real disturbing things about religion (Faith). Especially the Muslim Faith.

avin your comment doesn't have any ring of truth, only a ring of bias.

Cobalt1959 -- Yes my faith was in the Bible. It was there and now its waivered. "The real truth lies within God's Word, the Bible." Real truth, Sam pointed out some real truths in his book, and those "truth's" were referenced in the Bible. The truth about "its alright to sell your daughter into slavery." I don't want to repeat some of the things he said here, because I am really afraid that it may sway others, and am not trying to be that type of person here.

I have a Christian friend that I work with and we talked about God is light today. And he was saying black holes swallowed light. And he was wondering if God (as light) could swallow a black hole.

I thought about it, then it dawned on me that when we speak of God as being light, we speak of it as a metaphor. "The way, the truth the light".

I finished reading Leviticus coinciding with my reading Sam's book. And my concept of God is radically different than what our Bible depicts. I have a concept that God is good and Moral. Leviticus is a troubling book, and as you grow older and begin to understand things that adults have been doing for centuries (that they don't do in America today), God doesn't seem as palatable to me as it used to.

My concept of God seems way better than the one I read about in the Bible.

One of my biggest questions is speaking about "Reasoning and Logic". When we reason, we use our minds to come to conclusions about situations. We don't reason well as we think about situations each and every day. As with the Circular reasoning that avin demonstrated.

Consider: Every devout Muslim has the same reason for being Muslim as we do for being Christian. Why don't we contemplate converting to Islam instead of Chrstianity? The truth is, I know exactly what its like to be an atheist with respect to the Muslim religion. What reason should compel me to continue in my current faith?

[Guest foxjoe]

He recommended some books to read. And I started one of them.

As human embrios we produce a tale, gill sacks, and a fulll coat of apelike hair. And happily we lose these features before birth.

What we see in nature, is so unlike what I would have created, if I were an allpowerful God. Crustations with non-functioning eyes, a whale during fetal development has teeth that they lose as adults.

The human respiratory and digestive tracts share a little plumbing at the pharynx. In the United states alone, this feature that God created causes 10ns of thousands of children to go in Emergency care each year and hundreds choke to death. Many others suffer irripairable brain injury.

In indonesia there are cults called "Cargo cults". They build a wooden plane that they congregate in and wait for the cargo that used to come to their island years ago. They believed the cargo comes from God because they see broken cargo shipped out, and new cargo come back. They dont' see nor deduce that it must be made by man somewhere else, they don't even know there's a somewhere else.

When the leader was asked by a Christian ( and they know of Christianity) why they worship Brian #### and wait for his Cargo for 50 years. He said, you sit and wait for Jesus to come back. If you can wait 2000 years for Jesus, I certainly can wait 50 for Brian.

These things are really difficult to pallat all at once. Its kinda like my brain is on eggs or something.

Faith is a choice, and I must continue to have reasons for my choice to continue to have faith. Talk about circular logic!!!

Reasoning is an important part of life, and so is logic. And as far a humility goes, Sam slammed me one that really convicted my spirit on humility.

Scientists will say "We just don't know" in the face of questions that they don't have the answers to. Christian's (mostly) have the answer ready, isn't it more humble to admit ignorance, than to spout an answer where there is no natural reasoning to back us up?

Christians will say "proudly" that we have a God that provides us all the answers! Yet when I look into this claim in ernhest, even PI isn't mentioned in the Bible with any real accuracy. In the Bible, the earth is still flat for many. It took a scientist to discover and deduce that the world is round, and columbus to prove it. And this was $1400 years After Jesus. So I am looking in my Bible for answers that just really aren't there. I mean wouldn't it have been prophesiet at least that the Internet be in the Bible?

I guess I just need to sleep on these thoughts and see where my morning takes me.

Foxjoe

[sweetycakes]

I've found my God to be true. Just. Faithful. Reliable. Dependable.

I'll stick with what I know. And what works.

Don't know what you all are looking for. If you're looking for the same things as me, I found it all in Jesus.

That's no lie.

[Guest foxjoe]

I've found my God to be true. Just. Faithful. Reliable. Dependable.

I'll stick with what I know. And what works.

Don't know what you all are looking for. If you're looking for the same things as me, I found it all in Jesus.

That's no lie.

Don't get me wrong stephenhwrth. If you are satisfied with "just Jesus" then you wouldn't be here browsing this site. Somehow your comment sounds dishonest.

I think the Christian story is a great story. And I really hope its all true, really. I still have to seek truth (even if I find that the Christian story to be a lie devised to control the masses with Guilt as the Catholics have done for centuries).

I feel that I am at a turning point in my life, and I have to address it fairly.

[ayin jade]

Foxjoe, who do you think Jesus is? Explain if you would how you became a Christian. That would help us to understand you.

The reason why I said the book is bad to begin with is the stated purpose of the book is to lead Christians away from the Lord. No believer should read something like that unless the Lord leads them to.

[Guest foxjoe]

When I lived in West Virginia (Morgantown) I was baptised as an adult. Even though I was a Christian before.

My background is that I was raised Presperterian, and really never understood the Christian story until my second year of college when I viewed a play on it. I thought it was beautiful. And my desire seeded me to seek ( even though I had asked at a young age that the Lord come into my heart). And so I was feverish in the Lord during my stay in Morgantown, and followed a non-denominational church. We had bi-weekley prayer meetings and singing of songs, and Bible study etc... These things are what blessed me during my stay there.

I had to leave that culture, and doing so made my Christianity practice therof stagnate. But I learned and became more educated in many fields, and as a computer programmer understand full well that we humans are terribly fallable when it comes to logic.

So now my questioning begins again, I have had put these decisions asside too long, and have to face my demons. (so to speak).

Avin, I probably mentioned the wrong person when I spoke of you earlier. My mistake...

foxjoe

[sweetycakes]

I've found my God to be true. Just. Faithful. Reliable. Dependable.

I'll stick with what I know. And what works.

Don't know what you all are looking for. If you're looking for the same things as me, I found it all in Jesus.

That's no lie.

Don't get me wrong stephenhwrth. If you are satisfied with "just Jesus" then you wouldn't be here browsing this site. Somehow your comment sounds dishonest.

I think the Christian story is a great story. And I really hope its all true, really. I still have to seek truth (even if I find that the Christian story to be a lie devised to control the masses with Guilt as the Catholics have done for centuries).

I feel that I am at a turning point in my life, and I have to address it fairly.

Don't know why you think my comment sounds dishonest, Foxjoe.....

But I like the sound of your last sentence, that you are willing to seek out and address these issues fairly. I only hope that your actions are as good as your words.

For myself, I have been through many experiences, seen many things. Done many things. What I haven't tried is probably not worth trying.

Don't think so? Name it!

And I know that if you are an honest seeker after the truth, that your search will eventually lead you to Jesus.

I know this.

I'm just trying to impart to you what I've found works for me, that's all.

And what I know will work for you. Because I've found Jesus to be all that He claimed to be.

I know I don't have to impress you with words. Jesus stands up for Himself.

Time will tell.

God is not afraid of scrutiny. In fact, He invites it.

I know.

As a matter of interest, could you please explain why my original comment sounds dishonest?

Anyway, greetings to you, brother.

It's good to debate, is it not? That's what the internet is for!