Butler Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 86 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/28/1982 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 oops............sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigalson123 Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/22/1965 Share Posted November 8, 2006 lol I thought you were just reallyappreciative by posting your response 3 times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 8, 2006 So the mind can be filled with abominable thots such as those pertaining to the sin of homosexuality - and these kind folk are under special consideration for special plans & majestic service by the righteous God?! Incredible beyond words. And the guy out of Colorado Springs is the epitome of Christian exemplary stature? http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Ahh I missed your post Arthur. There is no reason to have envy for people who do overcome sin and that indeed Christ may be calling them to lead lives of celibacy in service to Him only, this was the case for Paul who wished indeed that more people could live celibately. I wonder why Paul never sought out women? What was up with him? Today people would probably accuse him of being gay, although he was not. The man in Colorado is the opposite example of what I am talking about. He gave into his sin, he hid it in shame (and it is shameful), he had a false marriage to cover his sinful temptations. Think how much better his life would have been, how much better the Church would be, and can still be if he commits his temptations to Christ and commits his life to Christ in service only to Him. My point is simply to deal with these temptations in a God pleasing way (it is never God pleasing to give in to temptation). But hiding the urges will not help either, they won't go away. Possibly they are something that a person must deal with their entire life. Nobody, and particularly Christ said that following Him would be easy, in fact it will be and involve pain and sacrifice if it is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 8, 2006 How can one be a homosexual and a Christian at the same time? The answer is called denial, The Bible says you can not serve two maters. Either you love the one and hate the other or love the one hate the other. Well what do you mean by a homosexual? Do you mean a man who actually has sex with other men, or do you mean a man who all of his life has only been sexually attracted to other men, and struggles against his desires. I agree a Christian who willingly and openly rejects sexual purity by having sex outside of marriage is in denial. But we all face temptation to sin, it is what we do with it that counts. For whatever reason there is a group of people in the world probably between 3-8% of the population who have only sexual and romantic desires for people of the same sex. Most will never lose this desire, even after prayer, it is a cross they must carry. Celibacy is not easy, but that is what they are called to if they are Christian. So are you saying everyone who is a homosexual is a person who was "called" to be a eunuch? If so, I must say I totally disagree with this statement, and actually find it ludicrous. One of the first recorded statements God made in the Bible was "it is not good for man to be alone....I will make him a helpmate (a woman) to be with him." The danger is that they don't deal with these thoughts and desires, don't accept celibacy as they were called to be, and marry women, like Haggard did. Look at the damage he has caused, he should have remained celibate and dedicated his life to the Lord in that way. Man this is just grabbing straws. How do you know he wasn't called to father ten children, and simply messed up? How do you know it isn't just something he struggles with? So, should every man who struggles with porn or masturbation also "called" to remain celibate and not marry? You would quickly eliminate nearly all marriages within a generation or two, as I know from posts on this board that even senior posters on this forum struggle with sexual addictions of every kind. This approach of throwing the baby out with the bath water is not beneficial to anyone. I have a cousin who was married to a man for ten years, and had two children, and who is now divorced and living as a lesbian with another woman. She was not "born" that way, and expressed no outward desire to be with other women until about the time of her divorce. From the time she was an early teen, in fact, her parents had trouble with her running around with guys and having premarital sex with boys. So which was it? Did she run to the boys as a defense mechanism because she was secretly gay? or did she love men 'til her husband beat her constantly, then decided to give women a try? I have no clue which is the case, but I'm certainly not going to agree with the ridiculous assertion that she was "meant" to be celibate either. Hi Ray. Why is it ridiculous? She would have been much better off choosing celibacy than what she went through both as a teen, battered women, and someone now living in sexual sin as a lesbian. Yes it is quite common for teens that are fighting gay sexual urges to be promiscuous as teens as a method of trying NOT to be gay. Frankly given what you have posted, she sounds like a classic case frankly. So, should every man who struggles with porn or masturbation also "called" to remain celibate and not marry? You would quickly eliminate nearly all marriages within a generation or two, as I know from posts on this board that even senior posters on this forum struggle with sexual addictions of every kind. Well sexual purity is a huge problem in the Church today. If a person is promiscuous prior to getting married, they will have a problem with adultery within marriage. If a person is addicted to porn prior to marriage they won't stop when they are married. In both of these cases marriage makes the problem worse not better because in general it then adds a lie to the marriage. These things need to be dealt with prior to marriage. I wonder if one of the reason's evangelicals have such a high divorce rate is that we seem to rush toward marriage without dealing with serious sin in our lives, without looking realistically at living lives of sexual purity before committing to marriage. My point is simply that the LAST thing someone dealing with gay sexual temptation should do is go out and find themselves a wife and have kids, that won't help anything and frankly is a time bomb of pain and hurt waiting to blow up. Deal with the urges first, and yes I think Christ can and does free people of these temptations, but not always. Sometimes we have crosses we must bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I am probably not being clear, as usual I will admit What I am saying is that you should not be practicing porn addiction, or promiscuous sex, or suffering under gay temptations when you marry. These sins directly impact your future and your wife or husband. Would you marry a women who confided to you that she was MAINLY attracted to other women sexually but was praying to be released from this urge, and hoped your marriage to her would help? Come on, you would know that she would never really think of you as a man. Sure she could grit her teeth and go through with it, but do YOU want to be somebody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzaguy Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2006 satan trys every thing he can do to get a couple in bed before they are married..... and then.... after they are married, he does every thing he can do to keep them apart....... Now THAT is a cool observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittylover0991 Posted November 8, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 490 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,726 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1990 Share Posted November 8, 2006 WOW! Thanks for all your imput guys and girls! While all your posts were helpful I guess I'll have to find an actively homosexual Christain to ask. Ya see, I know its wrong. God has told us so. What I dont understand is how can a Christian live with him/herself while ACTIVELY sinning against God? Hey, Im certainly not perfect. I have flaws, HUGE flaws, but I get down on my knees and aske God to forgive my sins. If I was stealing (and did so every day) and never asked for forgivness I just dont know how I could face the Father. God bless all of you for your replies. Just to clarify one other thing, I dont hate hoxosexuals, I hate their behaviour. I have 3 friends that are homosexual, 2 guys and a girl. They know where I stand on the matter and we respect each others views (even if they are apposed). If only they were Christian then I could ask them! GOB BLESS ALL OF YOU!!! Hey Butler, Again, I am not homosexual becuase the Lord gave me the strength to not well, deal too much with that, but as for the thing about activily living in sin as a Christian (lol considering we've all agreed it is a sin), I know how that works all to well from experience. Just dealing with sexually immoral sins that include the thought life, includes lifestyle, and includes actions, I know all too well what it means to try and activily live in that and not go to the Father, considering the Lord is helping me with little baby steps out of that right now. How? simple, avoid praying. That means if you go to church, the Lords speaks to you during every message, if you're not daydreaming. It means that even if the Holy Spirit speaks you, you hear, but someone justify putting it off for another day. You walk around, day to day in misery because you know you have the answer, you know you have the way.. which the Lord just reminded when I prayed and said I didnt' know they way out, the Holy Spirit whispered something in my ear, "I am the way". Many times, you'll envy those around you that aren't saved because of the things they can do that you can't without feeling guilty, it maybe even envy those of the faith that have either gotten through a binding struggle/sin or that are just plain old, older and wiser in the faith.... It causes a deep misery, there is no true joy... happiness(temporary) is very appaealing but doesn't satisfy... and you go to bed hopeless, worrying about tommarow... having the solution right in front of you but trying to live throughout the day without talking to God. This might be extreme, it might be nothing compared. But either way, it is completely misery... and if you are a Christian, garunteed, you STILL won't fit in with those of the world because they don't like to be around miserable people lol sheer and utter misery is the only word for it. Doesn't sound like anythign good, definitly not fruitful, but too ashamed to humble themselves before the Lord and face the issue. Too ashamed and so many times lose sight of the way, loose sight of hope, and loose ear to the Lord and Holy Spirit. How does one explain simply? Indifferent. Backsliden. Rebellion. Sin is sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittylover0991 Posted November 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 490 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,726 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1990 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Hey Butler, Again, I am not homosexual becuase the Lord gave me the strength to not well, deal too much with that, but as for the thing about activily living in sin as a Christian (lol considering we've all agreed it is a sin), I know how that works all to well from experience. Just dealing with sexually immoral sins that include the thought life, includes lifestyle, and includes actions, I know all too well what it means to try and activily live in that and not go to the Father, considering the Lord is helping me with little baby steps out of that right now. How? simple, avoid praying. That means if you go to church, the Lords speaks to you during every message, if you're not daydreaming. It means that even if the Holy Spirit speaks you, you hear, but someone justify putting it off for another day. You walk around, day to day in misery because you know you have the answer, you know you have the way.. which the Lord just reminded when I prayed and said I didnt' know they way out, the Holy Spirit whispered something in my ear, "I am the way". Many times, you'll envy those around you that aren't saved because of the things they can do that you can't without feeling guilty, it maybe even envy those of the faith that have either gotten through a binding struggle/sin or that are just plain old, older and wiser in the faith.... It causes a deep misery, there is no true joy... happiness(temporary) is very appaealing but doesn't satisfy... and you go to bed hopeless, worrying about tommarow... having the solution right in front of you but trying to live throughout the day without talking to God. This might be extreme, it might be nothing compared. But either way, it is completely misery... and if you are a Christian, garunteed, you STILL won't fit in with those of the world because they don't like to be around miserable people lol sheer and utter misery is the only word for it. Doesn't sound like anythign good, definitly not fruitful, but too ashamed to humble themselves before the Lord and face the issue. Too ashamed and so many times lose sight of the way, loose sight of hope, and loose ear to the Lord and Holy Spirit. How does one explain simply? Indifferent. Backsliden. Rebellion. Sin is sin. I have to disagree. Sorry. Not every person who has sinful habits, whether sexual or otherwise, is backslidden or in rebellion. As I continue to say, the things I was doing I knew it was wrong and I would cry myself to sleep all the time praying for help. People may not believe this, but the fact I was trying so hard not to do one perversion ended up leading ot me doing others. Sin is like that. You keep beating at one spot fire on the left side, and it pops up on the right side. Several times I went to pastors and others trying to get help, and nobody could really offer $0.02 worth of advice. Advice consists of: "Pray More" " Read your Bible more", etc. As if you aren't already doing that till you are blue in the face anyway. LOL oh goodness you crack me up!!!!! lol How I know that to be true!!! lol Before anythign else, I didn't say that anyone who has a sinful habit (sexual or otherwise) is in rebellion or backslidden Butler had asked as to "how can a Christian live with him/herself while ACTIVELY sinning against God?" and about them "never asking for forgivness ", how he coudl never live within himself liek that. Butler was refering to someone who not only has a sinful habit, but is activily participating in that sin, and NOT praying to God for forgiveness lol and yeah, the blue in the fact thing is a fun I've cried myself to sleep a couple times too becuase of trying to say no to a sin.... so I know that how that feels... It is also fustrating to always be told "Pray more" and "read your bible more" because it only become practically fustrating in the end because that is what you have been doing..... lol I guess I am trying to say I understand where you are coming from, but butler was talking abotu someone activly sinning and not repenting... I know that one all too well and it only equals misery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittylover0991 Posted November 9, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 490 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,726 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1990 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Question though.... how can we *help* someone that is truly struggling in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovinghim4ever Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Question though.... how can we *help* someone that is truly struggling in this area? Love them UNCONDITIONALLY! You don't have to condone the wrong in someone's life to love them. You just have to love them. No condemnation. No judgement. Just love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts