redeemed098 Posted December 2, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 489 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1964 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I'm curious about this idea of the Holy Spirit. I was under the impression that there was only one god in Christianity. How does this holy spirit do deeds separate from this God or this God do anything separate from the holy spirit? If the holy spirit is really only part of God, couldn't you say that anything God ever did was something that the holy spirit also did? ethical atheist, Noone can tell you about the Holy Spirit because it is not something the unbeliever is able to grasp. Im not insulting your ability to comprehend. Im simply informing you that the Holy Spirit is only something that comes through revelation...The Holy Spirit is the very essence of who God is...You cant know God unless he reveals himself to you...He does this through his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is promised to those who repent of their sins and are baptised in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:38) The only way God can impart himself into all believers is by his Spirit, otherwise he would be in one person only.... Listen to what the scriptures say.... The spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the mans spirit within him...? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. (Now listen to this bit) The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:10-15) You as a man are trying to understand the things of the spirit of God even though you do not have the spirit of God. Because God has not imparted the very essence of who he is into "you" you cannot know him. Though you may try, you cannot know him unless he imparts himself into you....That is why it is written... "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38) God cannot dwell in a place that is filled with sin. That is why a man must repent and acknowledge the cleansing power of what Jesus did on the cross. God is Holy...and it is written that the kingdom of God is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14:17) You see, you as a man have thoughts ea. And no one except you knows those thoughts....Therefore if you do not share those thoughts with anyone, then no one can truly know you..Sure people can think they know you, but how well do they really know you...They do not have your thoughts and they are not you...Just as you do not know their thoughts and you are not them. When God imparts his very spirit into the life of the Believer, the believer is able to know God. In that sense ea, you are capable of having a closer relationship with God than you are with your own mother and father. You dont even know your own mother or fathers thoughts...But God through his spirit witnesses to your spirit the truth of who he is. You can know Gods thoughts. This is not simply a hearing of Gods voice so to speak as it is a prompting or an inner voice or impression upon your spirt. The prompting or inner voice never says anything contrary to the word of God..This is how you discern between truth and lie. That is also why you hear so many people speaking of hearing voices in their heads....Jesus said, "my sheep will know my voice, and the voice of a stranger he will not follow." You cannot follow Jesus as the good shepherd if you dont know his voice.....If you dont have the Holy Spirit, you cannot know the voice of Jesus. It is the Holy Spirit who reminds us of everything Jesus said. Read the gospels...Jesus said, "I must go so the comforter can come..He the spirit will remind you of all I have told you." Jesus was one man who walked the earth, who could only be in one place at the one time...God indwells believers by his spirit. That way the body is the temple of God..He dwells "in" his people now and not in temples made by human hands. Though there are many believers, there is one spirit. The spirit of God. The same spirit is alive in all true believers.....Listen.. However it is written, "no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him", but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The spirit of God never witnesses anything to a mans spirit that is contrary to Gods Word..That is why Gods Word is the doctrine the believer lives by so as not to deviate from that truth. I began this post by saying that you cannot understand ea even if you wanted to....Yet I still tried in some way to explain it to you a little...I dont expect you to grasp what any of it means, but I thought Id post it anyhow...You may say that you can grasp the gist of it....But without the spirit of God you can only only comprehend according to your own mind which is without the spirit of God. The Spirit of God is heart revelation, not head revelation. It is because you cannot comprehend these things that you fail to understand how God can be the father the son and the holy spirit all in one. If you know one, you know all...Because they all witness the very same spiritual truth. I hope somehow that this post has been worth your while to read...I believe it is a post that glorifies God and speaks correctly of the truths of God. Though this is not even remotely close to scratching the surface of all there is to know...That is why the believer is everyday "growing in the knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ." Regards, Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepreacher Posted December 2, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2006 I'm curious about this idea of the Holy Spirit. I was under the impression that there was only one god in Christianity. How does this holy spirit do deeds separate from this God or this God do anything separate from the holy spirit? If the holy spirit is really only part of God, couldn't you say that anything God ever did was something that the holy spirit also did? ethical.atheist, A human can be a judge one day. The next day save an injured person in an accident. They can go to the hospital and stay with that person until they are okay. They can be a parent at the same time they are doing all those things. The main difference between that human and God is that, God can do it all at the same time in millions of examples. God isn't male or female but chooses to be known as God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all the time and everywhere. He is able to do that. We just can't do that. Just like we would love to be able to flap our arms and fly but we can't. The birds can! So why can't we! We can understand why birds fly, but it is harder for some to accept what God does and stay just one God. For some people it is like trying to understand higher math. They know it exists, and is used by other people, but some people just don't have the aptitude to understand higher math. It is the same with understanding God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 2, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2006 Noone can tell you about the Holy Spirit because it is not something the unbeliever is able to grasp. wow... for not being one, you seem to know a lot about non-believers. But yeah... so what I get is Holy Spirit = God's manifestation in the reality we experience That sound OK? In that case, the holy spirit is either a separate God or is only God's voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 2, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2006 A human can be a judge one day. The next day save an injured person in an accident. They can go to the hospital and stay with that person until they are okay. They can be a parent at the same time they are doing all those things. God isn't male or female but chooses to be known as God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all the time and everywhere. He is able to do that. We just can't do that. I'm not sure, but it really feels like you are contradicting yourself. Let me give an example a shot and you can tell me if I am understanding right. I'm ethical.atheist the Professor, ethical.atheist the Student and ethical.atheist the Chinese Food Aficionado. So the Professor teaches on tuesday nights, the Student tries to redefine web architecture systems and the Chinese Food aficionado goes into food induced comas. ...but really I am all things at once and these are merely different names I give myself that have to do with the job I am doing. ...but the reason I can't get away with calling myself three different things is because I am not omnipresent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted December 2, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I'm curious about this idea of the Holy Spirit. I was under the impression that there was only one god in Christianity. How does this holy spirit do deeds separate from this God or this God do anything separate from the holy spirit? If the holy spirit is really only part of God, couldn't you say that anything God ever did was something that the holy spirit also did? That is a very good question and yes, there is only one God, separated in 3 parts. A good example of this I can find is "the goverment, there are 3 equal parts, legislative, executive, and judical. Now, the Holy Spirit is God, but it also has different actions, conviction, and works in our lives on a personal lever, Now, the trinity is also concidered the tri-unity, It's all one God, separated into 3 parts, In Gen. you can find the first example, where God says let us create man in our image" which is the first reference to the trinity, It is hard to understand for a non believer, and even some believers, There is one God who has 3 different sides to him, where each side acts different, yes it is all the act of one God, but there is 3 different parts. You can say that anything the Holy Spirit did, God did, yes you could say that anything that God did Jesus did, But Saying the Holy Spirit did somthing refers to God, saying the living spirit of God who lives in believers when they accept him, The Holy Spirit in the bible is refered to as a person, a living spirit, who is the same God but holds different qualitys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilW Posted December 2, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2006 I'm curious about this idea of the Holy Spirit. I was under the impression that there was only one god in Christianity. How does this holy spirit do deeds separate from this God or this God do anything separate from the holy spirit? If the holy spirit is really only part of God, couldn't you say that anything God ever did was something that the holy spirit also did? There is one God who is manifested as three persons. We insist on emphasizing both the oneness of God and the distinction between the three persons that God is, and insist further that there is no "better" way to look at it. Somehow, one God is three persons, and all three persons are fully God--all of this makes the Trinity a great mystery. It is thus not supposed to be entirely comprehensible, though things can be said about it that render the idea more tangible. I'll try to say some such things. Christians believe in a personal God--a God that can relate to his creations in a way that is somehow like how we relate to each other. In fact, how we relate to each other is supposed to be an image for what God is like, since we were created in his image. The point of describing God as three persons is not to suggest that there are three distinct Gods, but rather that God is "personal" in three distinct and essential ways. One way to think of it is as follows: if you've ever heard the phrase "God is love," (which is asserted in the bible) notice that, since love describes a relationship, for God to be love he must be at least two persons. The first person in the Trinity, the Father, is the lover, and he loves the second person in the Trinity, his beloved Son. What this is saying is that God is capable of both giving and receiving love: this "exchange" is essential to what God is. The Holy Spirit, who is the third person in the Trinity, can be understood as the love itself--what Christianity is saying is that this love relationship between the Father and Son is just as much a person as the lover or the beloved--all three are personal, and all three are essential for God to be what he is. In humanity, relationships of love are meant to follow this model, since we are made in the image of God. Take for example, a family: the husband is the lover, the wife is the beloved--both are persons, both are necessary for the family to be what it is. Further, the love between the husband and wife produces (provided all goes smoothly ) another person, their child. This is only an image, though. God made humanity both as an image of this relationship and so that we could really participate in this relationship of love that He is. In terms of one's personal relationship with God, Christians come to know God the Father through Christ, who is the Son, and by doing so God the Holy Spirit dwells within them. In turn we love each other as Christ loves us, as this whole process becomes a participation in the amazing love that God is. The "love" model of the Trinity doesn't tell the whole story though. It only describes the essence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2006 (edited) There is one God who is manifested as three persons. the goverment, there are 3 equal parts, legislative, executive, and judical. But these are three different government entities and often contradict each other. So if you to refer to the government of God it would have 3 different entities? So it is three separate decision making beings? Sounds like 3 gods. I still don't get it. Oh and please read all of the posts since I already covered this point Edited December 3, 2006 by ethical.atheist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted December 3, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Water, ice, and steam That being said, a nonbeliever will never be able to understand the Trinity. Christins don't even totally understand, as thisis a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethical.atheist Posted December 3, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2006 That being said, a nonbeliever will never be able to understand the Trinity. Christins don't even totally understand, as thisis a mystery.Forgive me, but this sounds a lot like "I just don't feel like thinking about it or explaining it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilW Posted December 3, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2006 But these are three different government entities and often contradict each other. So if you to refer to the government of God it would have 3 different entities? So it is three separate decision making beings? Sounds like 3 gods. I still don't get it. Oh and please read all of the posts since I already covered this point His analogy is only to illustrate how something can be both "many" and "one" at the same time. One government, three branches. One God, three persons. The word "God" refers to the unity of the three persons of the Trinity in a similar fashion to how the word "government" refers to the unity of its legislative, executive, and judicial branches. Thus when you say "government of God" you are really mixing the analogy with what it was meant to describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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