Floatingaxe Posted February 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 22, 2007 lol Not stepping into the woman preacher thing again, I do believe that a woman and man pastor can have multiple gifts, I do believe many can have multiple gifts, and I don't believe that a woman who is a pasture can't be a woman of God, I believe God is in all and uses all, I do believe how ever that woman can't be pastors, but who am I to question the woman pastors heart..... You did not go there!!! Need a V8 moment I would think!?!? Rev Karen C I second that, (Lay) Pastor Nan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted February 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 lol Not stepping into the woman preacher thing again, I do believe that a woman and man pastor can have multiple gifts, I do believe many can have multiple gifts, and I don't believe that a woman who is a pasture can't be a woman of God, I believe God is in all and uses all, I do believe how ever that woman can't be pastors, but who am I to question the woman pastors heart..... You did not go there!!! Need a V8 moment I would think!?!? Rev Karen C Mabie I should re-word it to shouldn't, I do however believe that God can use what ever he wishes, and can place who ever he wants, he has the authroity, on this matter, I try to stay out of. Josh, you are walking where angels fear to tread! The water is very deep on that end of the pool. . . Ya, I realized that, It's sad cause this has been a topic for a month now that I have tried to avoid yet always comes up. It did cause me to study the history of the corinthian church though, crazy, Basicly, the passage about woman being quiet in Church refers to a situation that was happening then, the temple prostitutes would come and interupt the sermon and start arguing in the middle of the church. Also they would shave their heads and pretend to be a prophetess, serving foreign gods. Ya, on this whole subject, I plead the 5th and I'll pass on it, lol if there is no 5th I'll plead the 10th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted February 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 278 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1962 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two. Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct? Good morning Mt.4.4, Concerning tongues being a private prayer language, 1 Cor. 14:1-2 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries." v. 4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself". v.13-15 "Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding, I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." The primary purpose of praying in the spirit (praying in tongues without understanding) is for self-edification and is not meant to be a public expression to build up the body of Christ. How can someone speaking in tongues be a blessing to others without also the interpretation? You must understand the passage based on the Context. Paul was addressing a Charismatic church gone WILD! Apparently everyone was going around praying and worshiping in tongues publicly; but this was not building up the church. It was just foolish. They were taking what God meant for personal self-edification and using as some form of spiritual badge of importance or something. Paul is careful to still strongly affirm the practice of praying in tongues in private; he even says, v.5 "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues,". Praying in the spirit, praying in tongues IS meant for every believer "I wish ALL spoke in tongues." And every believer can speak in tongues if they will simply receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in faith, trust the Word and act upon their beliefs. Paul said, v.15 "What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." Concerning prophecy and prophets, yes there are prophets today, and yes they are accurate in their prophecies. Of course, I could point out ministries to you, but it's likely that you'd discount them and even declare them false prophets because they differ with you significantly theologically. To begin with they/we believe that the Spritual Gifts are for today, but you've errantly relegated them to the past. You also allude to an errant teaching that the Spiritual Gifts are no longer needed because we have the bible. This is a completely unbiblical concept. The Spiritual Gifts were given for us to build the kingdom of God. Tongues is primarily for self-edification. The other gifts are primarily for building up the body of Christ. Prophecy is especially powerful, and much, if not most, of the time it's not even predictive, but speaks concerning present needs of a person. Personal example, a few years ago a brother in Christ (whom I knew of but did not know personally) and I were praying together in class. He shared that He believed that the Lord was showing him that I was suffering a mild case of depression. He also shared that the Lord was going to be restoring Joy into my life. Well, he was right-on. And over the next few months the Lord did restore Joy in my life. Now that's a simple example, but still it was powerful to me. I've also spoke into people's lives many times, prophetic words that were very encouraging and uplifing. I do not consider myself a prophet, but I do my best to be sensitive to the Spirit for opportunities to encourage and bless others. I also tend to flow in words of knowledge and wisdom. I've also seen miracles and healings. I could share these, but it would do no good if you don't believe and discount the Word to "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy." Mt.4.4, do you desire spiritual gifts? Do you eagerly desire, really want to prophesy? Or have you believed the lie of satan that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are not for today? Edited February 22, 2007 by Sherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen C. Posted February 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 662 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1960 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Ya, I realized that, It's sad cause this has been a topic for a month now that I have tried to avoid yet always comes up. It did cause me to study the history of the corinthian church though, crazy, Basicly, the passage about woman being quiet in Church refers to a situation that was happening then, the temple prostitutes would come and interupt the sermon and start arguing in the middle of the church. Also they would shave their heads and pretend to be a prophetess, serving foreign gods. Ya, on this whole subject, I plead the 5th and I'll pass on it, lol if there is no 5th I'll plead the 10th. You can plead them all if you need to... Blessings bro... Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 22, 2007 You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two. Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct? Good morning Mt.4.4, Concerning tongues being a private prayer language, 1 Cor. 14:1-2 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries." v. 4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself". v.13-15 "Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding, I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." The primary purpose of praying in the spirit (praying in tongues without understanding) is for self-edification and is not meant to be a public expression to build up the body of Christ. How can someone speaking in tongues be a blessing to others without also the interpretation? You must understand the passage based on the Context. Paul was addressing a Charismatic church gone WILD! Apparently everyone was going around praying and worshiping in tongues publicly; but this was not building up the church. It was just foolish. They were taking what God meant for personal self-edification and using as some form of spiritual badge of importance or something. Paul is careful to still strongly affirm the practice of praying in tongues in private; he even says, v.5 "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues,". Praying in the spirit, praying in tongues IS meant for every believer "I wish ALL spoke in tongues." And every believer can speak in tongues if they will simply receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in faith, trust the Word and act upon their beliefs. Paul said, v.15 "What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." Concerning prophecy and prophets, yes there are prophets today, and yes they are accurate in their prophecies. Of course, I could point out ministries to you, but it's likely that you'd discount them and even declare them false prophets because they differ with you significantly theologically. To begin with they/we believe that the Spritual Gifts are for today, but you've errantly relegated them to the past. You also allude to an errant teaching that the Spiritual Gifts are no longer needed because we have the bible. This is a completely unbiblical concept. The Spiritual Gifts were given for us to build the kingdom of God. Tongues is primarily for self-edification. The other gifts are primarily for building up the body of Christ. Prophecy is especially powerful, and much, if not most, of the time it's not even predictive, but speaks concerning present needs of a person. Personal example, a few years ago a brother in Christ (whom I knew of but did not know personally) and I were praying together in class. He shared that He believed that the Lord was showing him that I was suffering a mild case of depression. He also shared that the Lord was going to be restoring Joy into my life. Well, he was right-on. And over the next few months the Lord did restore Joy in my life. Now that's a simple example, but still it was powerful to me. I've also spoke into people's lives many times, prophetic words that were very encouraging and uplifing. I do not consider myself a prophet, but I do my best to be sensitive to the Spirit for opportunities to encourage and bless others. I also tend to flow in words of knowledge and wisdom. I've also seen miracles and healings. I could share these, but it would do no good if you don't believe and discount the Word to "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy." Mt.4.4, do you desire spiritual gifts? Do you eagerly desire, really want to prophesy? Or have you believed the lie of satan that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are not for today? Hey, are we twins? God bless you, Sherman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted February 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 278 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1962 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hey, are we twins? God bless you, Sherman! I don't know about twins, but we have the same Father!!! Floatingaxe, I appreciate your passion and love for the Lord very much! Blessings, Sherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew4:4 Posted February 23, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 117 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1986 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two. Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct? Good morning Mt.4.4, Concerning tongues being a private prayer language, 1 Cor. 14:1-2 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries." v. 4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself". v.13-15 "Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding, I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." The primary purpose of praying in the spirit (praying in tongues without understanding) is for self-edification and is not meant to be a public expression to build up the body of Christ. How can someone speaking in tongues be a blessing to others without also the interpretation? You must understand the passage based on the Context. Paul was addressing a Charismatic church gone WILD! Apparently everyone was going around praying and worshiping in tongues publicly; but this was not building up the church. It was just foolish. They were taking what God meant for personal self-edification and using as some form of spiritual badge of importance or something. Paul is careful to still strongly affirm the practice of praying in tongues in private; he even says, v.5 "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues,". Praying in the spirit, praying in tongues IS meant for every believer "I wish ALL spoke in tongues." And every believer can speak in tongues if they will simply receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in faith, trust the Word and act upon their beliefs. Paul said, v.15 "What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." Concerning prophecy and prophets, yes there are prophets today, and yes they are accurate in their prophecies. Of course, I could point out ministries to you, but it's likely that you'd discount them and even declare them false prophets because they differ with you significantly theologically. To begin with they/we believe that the Spritual Gifts are for today, but you've errantly relegated them to the past. You also allude to an errant teaching that the Spiritual Gifts are no longer needed because we have the bible. This is a completely unbiblical concept. The Spiritual Gifts were given for us to build the kingdom of God. Tongues is primarily for self-edification. The other gifts are primarily for building up the body of Christ. Prophecy is especially powerful, and much, if not most, of the time it's not even predictive, but speaks concerning present needs of a person. Personal example, a few years ago a brother in Christ (whom I knew of but did not know personally) and I were praying together in class. He shared that He believed that the Lord was showing him that I was suffering a mild case of depression. He also shared that the Lord was going to be restoring Joy into my life. Well, he was right-on. And over the next few months the Lord did restore Joy in my life. Now that's a simple example, but still it was powerful to me. I've also spoke into people's lives many times, prophetic words that were very encouraging and uplifing. I do not consider myself a prophet, but I do my best to be sensitive to the Spirit for opportunities to encourage and bless others. I also tend to flow in words of knowledge and wisdom. I've also seen miracles and healings. I could share these, but it would do no good if you don't believe and discount the Word to "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy." Mt.4.4, do you desire spiritual gifts? Do you eagerly desire, really want to prophesy? Or have you believed the lie of satan that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are not for today? Wow, dude hold up a sec. Thanks for the versus confirming that it is a personal prayer language. I believe you there. But man, I was baptized in the holy spirit when I recieved Jesus into my life. The holy spirit brings fruits of the spirit and gifts of the spirit. Your making the gifts sound more important though. Its not all about that. I have a great relationship with our Lord and so I dont feel the need to speak in tongues personally plus its obvious its not something everyone recieves. But I believe certain gifts exist today like healings and such. I just believe tongues, prophecy, and knowledge have passed. And I dont think what that kid told you about your depression is an example of prophecy. God was simply telling him something about you. Doesnt sound like prophecy. And, by all means tell me the names of the ministries but please do not say Benny Hinn Ministries. That man is an obvious fraud hurting many christians' faith and discouarging many unbelievers as well. You are right that I will call him a false prophet. lol. But the other ones I will take a look at. As long as their prophesies have come true 100% theres nothing I can say. Listen, as I said before Im not completly against the fact they could still be in use. I just want to see a fair argument for both sides before I make my verdict. Josh has been telling me about his personal experience with it and it seems much more useful and real than the tongues and prophecy I have been exposed to. Your brother in Christ, matthew Edited February 23, 2007 by matthew4:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted February 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted February 23, 2007 You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two. Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct? Good morning Mt.4.4, Concerning tongues being a private prayer language, 1 Cor. 14:1-2 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries." v. 4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself". v.13-15 "Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding, I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." The primary purpose of praying in the spirit (praying in tongues without understanding) is for self-edification and is not meant to be a public expression to build up the body of Christ. How can someone speaking in tongues be a blessing to others without also the interpretation? You must understand the passage based on the Context. Paul was addressing a Charismatic church gone WILD! Apparently everyone was going around praying and worshiping in tongues publicly; but this was not building up the church. It was just foolish. They were taking what God meant for personal self-edification and using as some form of spiritual badge of importance or something. Paul is careful to still strongly affirm the practice of praying in tongues in private; he even says, v.5 "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues,". Praying in the spirit, praying in tongues IS meant for every believer "I wish ALL spoke in tongues." And every believer can speak in tongues if they will simply receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in faith, trust the Word and act upon their beliefs. Paul said, v.15 "What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." Concerning prophecy and prophets, yes there are prophets today, and yes they are accurate in their prophecies. Of course, I could point out ministries to you, but it's likely that you'd discount them and even declare them false prophets because they differ with you significantly theologically. To begin with they/we believe that the Spritual Gifts are for today, but you've errantly relegated them to the past. You also allude to an errant teaching that the Spiritual Gifts are no longer needed because we have the bible. This is a completely unbiblical concept. The Spiritual Gifts were given for us to build the kingdom of God. Tongues is primarily for self-edification. The other gifts are primarily for building up the body of Christ. Prophecy is especially powerful, and much, if not most, of the time it's not even predictive, but speaks concerning present needs of a person. Personal example, a few years ago a brother in Christ (whom I knew of but did not know personally) and I were praying together in class. He shared that He believed that the Lord was showing him that I was suffering a mild case of depression. He also shared that the Lord was going to be restoring Joy into my life. Well, he was right-on. And over the next few months the Lord did restore Joy in my life. Now that's a simple example, but still it was powerful to me. I've also spoke into people's lives many times, prophetic words that were very encouraging and uplifing. I do not consider myself a prophet, but I do my best to be sensitive to the Spirit for opportunities to encourage and bless others. I also tend to flow in words of knowledge and wisdom. I've also seen miracles and healings. I could share these, but it would do no good if you don't believe and discount the Word to "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy." Mt.4.4, do you desire spiritual gifts? Do you eagerly desire, really want to prophesy? Or have you believed the lie of satan that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are not for today? Wow, dude hold up a sec. Thanks for the versus confirming that it is a personal prayer language. I believe you there. But man, I was baptized in the holy spirit when I recieved Jesus into my life. The holy spirit brings fruits of the spirit and gifts of the spirit. Your making the gifts sound more important though. Its not all about that. I have a great relationship with our Lord and so I dont feel the need to speak in tongues personally plus its obvious its not something everyone recieves. But I believe certain gifts exist today like healings and such. I just believe tongues, prophecy, and knowledge have passed. And I dont think what that kid told you about your depression is an example of prophecy. God was simply telling him something about you. Doesnt sound like prophecy. And, by all means tell me the names of the ministries but please do not say Benny Hinn Ministries. That man is an obvious fraud hurting many christians' faith and discouarging many unbelievers as well. You are right that I will call him a false prophet. lol. But the other ones I will take a look at. As long as their prophesies have come true 100% theres nothing I can say. Listen, as I said before Im not completly against the fact they could still be in use. I just want to see a fair argument for both sides before I make my verdict. Josh has been telling me about his personal experience with it and it seems much more useful and real than the tongues and prophecy I have been exposed to. Your brother in Christ, matthew Why be such a naysayer? Open up and receive instead of tearing down. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the Church, and the building up of such---has the Church ceased? A resounding NO! It is still being built by Jesus Himself! The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as Salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen C. Posted February 23, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 662 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1960 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as Salvation. AMEN Sister~That is where they confuse being Baptised unto salvation.. (I call it Johns Baptism for the remission of sin) and the baptism with the Holy Spirit with POWER to witness and go out and do the "Great Commission" with signs following... There is a difference.. Blessings Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew4:4 Posted February 23, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 117 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1986 Share Posted February 23, 2007 You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two. Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct? Good morning Mt.4.4, Concerning tongues being a private prayer language, 1 Cor. 14:1-2 "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries." v. 4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself". v.13-15 "Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding, I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." The primary purpose of praying in the spirit (praying in tongues without understanding) is for self-edification and is not meant to be a public expression to build up the body of Christ. How can someone speaking in tongues be a blessing to others without also the interpretation? You must understand the passage based on the Context. Paul was addressing a Charismatic church gone WILD! Apparently everyone was going around praying and worshiping in tongues publicly; but this was not building up the church. It was just foolish. They were taking what God meant for personal self-edification and using as some form of spiritual badge of importance or something. Paul is careful to still strongly affirm the practice of praying in tongues in private; he even says, v.5 "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues,". Praying in the spirit, praying in tongues IS meant for every believer "I wish ALL spoke in tongues." And every believer can speak in tongues if they will simply receive the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in faith, trust the Word and act upon their beliefs. Paul said, v.15 "What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding." Concerning prophecy and prophets, yes there are prophets today, and yes they are accurate in their prophecies. Of course, I could point out ministries to you, but it's likely that you'd discount them and even declare them false prophets because they differ with you significantly theologically. To begin with they/we believe that the Spritual Gifts are for today, but you've errantly relegated them to the past. You also allude to an errant teaching that the Spiritual Gifts are no longer needed because we have the bible. This is a completely unbiblical concept. The Spiritual Gifts were given for us to build the kingdom of God. Tongues is primarily for self-edification. The other gifts are primarily for building up the body of Christ. Prophecy is especially powerful, and much, if not most, of the time it's not even predictive, but speaks concerning present needs of a person. Personal example, a few years ago a brother in Christ (whom I knew of but did not know personally) and I were praying together in class. He shared that He believed that the Lord was showing him that I was suffering a mild case of depression. He also shared that the Lord was going to be restoring Joy into my life. Well, he was right-on. And over the next few months the Lord did restore Joy in my life. Now that's a simple example, but still it was powerful to me. I've also spoke into people's lives many times, prophetic words that were very encouraging and uplifing. I do not consider myself a prophet, but I do my best to be sensitive to the Spirit for opportunities to encourage and bless others. I also tend to flow in words of knowledge and wisdom. I've also seen miracles and healings. I could share these, but it would do no good if you don't believe and discount the Word to "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy." Mt.4.4, do you desire spiritual gifts? Do you eagerly desire, really want to prophesy? Or have you believed the lie of satan that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are not for today? Wow, dude hold up a sec. Thanks for the versus confirming that it is a personal prayer language. I believe you there. But man, I was baptized in the holy spirit when I recieved Jesus into my life. The holy spirit brings fruits of the spirit and gifts of the spirit. Your making the gifts sound more important though. Its not all about that. I have a great relationship with our Lord and so I dont feel the need to speak in tongues personally plus its obvious its not something everyone recieves. But I believe certain gifts exist today like healings and such. I just believe tongues, prophecy, and knowledge have passed. And I dont think what that kid told you about your depression is an example of prophecy. God was simply telling him something about you. Doesnt sound like prophecy. And, by all means tell me the names of the ministries but please do not say Benny Hinn Ministries. That man is an obvious fraud hurting many christians' faith and discouarging many unbelievers as well. You are right that I will call him a false prophet. lol. But the other ones I will take a look at. As long as their prophesies have come true 100% theres nothing I can say. Listen, as I said before Im not completly against the fact they could still be in use. I just want to see a fair argument for both sides before I make my verdict. Josh has been telling me about his personal experience with it and it seems much more useful and real than the tongues and prophecy I have been exposed to. Your brother in Christ, matthew Why be such a naysayer? Open up and receive instead of tearing down. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the Church, and the building up of such---has the Church ceased? A resounding NO! It is still being built by Jesus Himself! The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as Salvation. How do you think by being that forceful about your opinion people are going to believe what you have to say? I'm not tearing down anything. I even said that there is a possibility. yes. But I want to see both sides told. And after recieving salvation you do in turn recieve the holy spirit. That doesnt mean they are the same. Once you ask Jesus to come into your life he will than fill you with the holy spirit. Where do you think it comes from? That whole evangelist ceremony of baptism in the holy spirit. In which they claim you can learn how to speak in tongues. You can learn how to do it. It says in the bible that God distributes these gifts as he wants to. One recieves this, another that, another this. Hopefully you can be open minded to that much. The church is one body in christ. Another thing for those who claim to have the gifts. Why is it that it seems most of you almost all claim to have the gift of tongues, not prophecy or knowledge. And please someone send me proof of a modern day prophet. And please do not ask me questions directed toward insulting my intelligence. Like, "has the church ceased?" Did I insult you in any way? Please tell me and please lets have a more peaceful discussion. Its obvious that there are many christians who believe in your way and in my way. Probably more that do not believe in the gifts but that doesnt make them right. Always, Your brother in Christ, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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