secondeve Posted December 4, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Share Posted December 4, 2006 So, I was thinking yesterday - there seems to be a lot of brouhaha in the media of late regarding whether or not gay marriage should be allowed. Quite naturally, just about all Christians are against this, because they see it as an offence in the eyes of God. But the thought occured to me that, yes, the churches have every right to decide who they will or will not perform ceremonies for, but a universal ban only works if the only definition of marriage as an institution is a Christian one. Nonebelievers get married in civil services; believers can marry non-believers; and people of different religions can have their own ceremonies in mosques, temples - wherever they please. So why, when it comes to the issue of marriage, do Christians fight so hard for an all-out ban on homosexual unions, rather than just a ban on individual churchs being forced to perform Christian ceremonies? Don't misunderstand me: I know why the Bible prohibits homosexuality, and I also know why Christians don't want it happening in a secular sense as well as a religious one. It just seems odd and lopsided to me that believers would single out gay marriage, rather than lobbying also for a ban on Christian marriages for those who will be 'unequally yoked,' or for other religions. Surely Hindu weddings or nonbeliever-believer weddings are as offensive to god as gay weddings? So why only pick on one? Perhaps this is a strange thing to ask, given that I think gay marriage is fine; but now that I think about it, it comes off to me as hypocritical. All sins are equal before God, which would presumably include the sin of unGodly marriage. If you're perfectly complacent about those other types of marriage, but choose to crack down on one in particular, it seems a bit like inviting sloth and gluttony into your home while raging about lust. So why single it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer of dreams Posted December 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 314 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/08/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2006 (edited) Secondave I am not for banning gay marriage, because as you said, it is up to the churches. The government should not get involved in this because it shows favor towards Christianity. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or the free exorcise thereof." Now while this may not be establishing a religion, it is regulating laws based on religious doctrine which, in my opinion, is the same thing. Secondly this is the land of the free, if the question was "should gays get to vote?" the answer would most certainly be yes, besides, what do I care if Bob and Frank want to get married? I don't know either one of them, the only way I even heard about them was because the media paints their picture with devil horns all over the place. What it boils down to is this; I wont marry a gay man, I'm not gay, but I will not tell others what they can and can't do, and I certainly wont judge them for it. I got a question for you Secondave. Why is gay marriage such a big issue but the war on drugs has not been mentioned 1 time by any media or any politician in the last year? Edited December 4, 2006 by Observer of dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted December 4, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 Secondave I am not for banning gay marriage, because as you said, it is up to the churches. The government should not get involved in this because it shows favor towards Christianity. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or the free exorcise thereof." Now while this may not be establishing a religion, it is regulating laws based on religious doctrine which, in my opinion, is the same thing. Secondly this is the land of the free, if the question was "should gays get to vote?" the answer would most certainly be yes, besides, what do I care if Bob and Frank want to get married? I don't know either one of them, the only way I even heard about them was because the media paints their picture with devil horns all over the place. What it boils down to is this; I wont marry a gay man, I'm not gay, but I will not tell others what they can and can't do, and I certainly wont judge them for it. I got a question for you Secondave. Why is gay marriage such a big issue but the war on drugs has not been mentioned 1 time by any media or any politician in the last year? Hi Observer! Firstly, I'm Australian, not American, but in fairness I was talking about the Western media in general. I'm glad you have no objections to gay marriage, but I think you'll find that puts you in an extreme minority of Christians - at least here at Worthy, anyway. As for the war on drugs - as I said, I'm from a different country, so I don't know what your politicians have or have not said on the issue. I do try to keep up with the U.S news, but that being said, I still miss a lot. I just started this thread because it seems odd to single out one kind of unGodly marriage and lobby against it, but to turn a blind eye to, accept or otherwise condone others. I know you don't have a problem with it, but the question was more for those who do. Either you can have a non-Christian definition of marriage for nonbelievers or mixed weddings and let that be - in which case, gay marriage should fall cheerfully into this category - or the only tolerable kind of marriage should be Christian, in which case it makes no sense to lobby against only one kind of discrepancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted December 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Certainly many Christian's oppose gay marriage. But there are also non-religious arguments against changing the definition of what marriage is for a society which have nothing to do with Christianity or homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Yeah I don't understand it either. Yes, it goes against the Word of God, but why is it anyone's business what two people want to do with their lives. Banning gay marriage is not going to make those people "ungay". The sins they are committing are going to be just as bad after they are married as they are now, so what difference does it make? We are all going to stand before God one day and the decisions we make in this lifetime will reflect on where we will be spending eternity. I don't know about anyone else but I have enough on my plate without having to worry about who's getting married. It's ok to have gay and lesbian ministers, but it's not ok if they're married. How odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Homosexuality should be banned: period. And the OP is right, cross faith marriage should be banned too, especially since its nothing but asking for trouble anyway. Just for the record, as a nonbeliever, I wasn't actually advocating this. I was just asking why a lot of Christians will oppose gay marriage as being unBiblical, but not lobby for a ban on unions where couples would be unequally yoked. But there are also non-religious arguments against changing the definition of what marriage is for a society which have nothing to do with Christianity or homosexuality. I'm aware of this, Smalcald. But with respect, I didn't begin this thread to discuss them. As I've stated above, I was specifically asking what justification can be offered, on behalf of those Christians who do oppose it, for singlig out and lobbying against gay marriage as opposed to any other marital union unsanctioned by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) Smalcald, your entire argument hinges upon the idea that the only valid definition of marriage is a) between a man and a woman, and/or b) Christian. Which isn't true. Marriage as a term has never been confined exclusively to Judaism or Christianity or the respective cultures of either faith, so why should it subscribe exclusively to their moralities? Edited December 5, 2006 by secondeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi770 Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 119 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,316 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/01/1970 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Yeah I don't understand it either. Yes, it goes against the Word of God, but why is it anyone's business what two people want to do with their lives. Banning gay marriage is not going to make those people "ungay". The sins they are committing are going to be just as bad after they are married as they are now, so what difference does it make? We are all going to stand before God one day and the decisions we make in this lifetime will reflect on where we will be spending eternity. I don't know about anyone else but I have enough on my plate without having to worry about who's getting married. It's ok to have gay and lesbian ministers, but it's not ok if they're married. How odd. Did God say it was ok for there to be gay and lesbian ministers-NO=people made their decision to allow this in their denomination=doesn't mean it's right or acceptable in the eyes of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondeve Posted December 5, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/02/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/21/1986 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Smalcald, your entire argument hinges upon the idea that the only valid definition of marriage is a) between a man and a woman, and/or b) Christian. Which isn't true. Marriage as a term has never been confined exclusively to Judaism or Christianity or the respective cultures of either faith, so why should it subscribe exclusively to their moralities? OK, unless I'm going crazy, when I posted this, Smalcald had another post up talking about what marriage was. It seems to have vanished. So, just to clarify, this wasn't initially random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Did God say it was ok for there to be gay and lesbian ministers-NO=people made their decision to allow this in their denomination=doesn't mean it's right or acceptable in the eyes of God. Then why aren't christians speaking out against it? We can't come out and say gay marriage is wrong and then have gay leaders in our churches. What kind of message is that sending to the people? If we're going speak out against homosexuallity, wouldn't it be in our best interest to include those leaders also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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