Judas' betrayal - Will or Sin?

[Floatingaxe]

No one knows whether Judas repented or not. He was surely remorseful.

Matthew 27: 3-4...

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders."I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."

[Guest Spirit88]

Was Judas' betrayal an obedient act of God's will? Jesus had already prophesied about it, so was it a will of God? If yes will Judas be forgiven for his betrayal?

Please shift this post to a relevant forum (I am not able to post anywhere else). Also please do reply to my other post at http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=51675

Thanks

Points to consider: re; Roxette's question

Christ was going to the cross, with or without Judas.

The Religious Leaders of that day, was determined to "get Him"

Remember, "No man takes my life, I lay it down"

An obedient act of Gods will? God's will is that ALL be saved and none lost.

Definitely sin, he had a choice, he couldn't wait for "due time, or the fullness of time"

he chose to work on his own, and only accomplished a sad end, known throughout time

as "the betrayer".

Just threw those points to ponder.

Thanks for listening, a new member!

Spirit88

[HAZARD]

Floatingaxe wrote;

"No one knows whether Judas repented or not. He was surely remorseful."

.

He may have been remorseful no worries, but even before Jesus was put to death, Judas was only sorry that he had betrayed Jesus, and he tried to return the money, hoping they might let Jesus go because Jesus was innocent of all charges against Him. The chief priests and Elders said, "What is that to us?" Matt. 27:4). They didn't care, they finally had Jesus who had escaped many times before ("Therefore they sought ""AGAIN"" to take him: but He escaped out of their hand," John 10:39), and thats all they wanted! When Judas saw that Jesus was caught and condemned to death, INSTEAD OF ESCAPING AS HE HAD DONE SO MANY TIMES BEFORE Judas was sorry and he repented himself, (Matt. 27:3), that is, he only regretted what he had done. He never went out and wept in repentance, or even just simply repented, as Peter did, when he realized what he had done in denying Jesus three times as Jesus had prophesised???? Judas, instead of repenting, brooded over his sin, he gave in to Satans temptation and committed suicide. He did commit suicide and to commit suice is to refuse Jesus Christ's death as repayement for sin. You see, Judas believed Satan, he assumed his sin was too great and just unforgivable, but not so!!!! God forgives all sin repented of in Jesus Holy Name because Jesus paid the penalty for us. The penalty for sin is death thats for sure, but Jesus paid the penalty. He does not require us to pay it. All Judas had to do is repent which he did not do, he killed himself instead anmd thats copping out even in these end times. Only a coward goes down that road.

Self murder, suicide, is murder and no murderer hath eternal life in him (1 John 3:15 and Revelation 22:14-15).

Spirit88 wrote:

"Points to consider: re; Roxette's question

Christ was going to the cross, with or without Judas.

The Religious Leaders of that day, was determined to "get Him"

Remember, "No man takes my life, I lay it down"

An obedient act of Gods will? God's will is that ALL be saved and none lost.

Definitely sin, he had a choice, he couldn't wait for "due time, or the fullness of time"

he chose to work on his own, and only accomplished a sad end, known throughout time

as "the betrayer".

Just threw those points to ponder.

Thanks for listening, a new member!

Spirit88"

.

Well said, and right on the money!

Haz.

[Marnie]

Dear Trinity.

We need to use our God given common sense here. Do you think for one minute that God would create a man, any man, to be destined to eternal hell, and in His plan for men, send His Beloved begotton Son to die in man's stead, and then not allow man access to this slavation which Jesus Christ died to provide.

Jesus said to Peter, you will deny me thrice. Peter said No way, never! But he did, three times. He went away and wept and repented, and was forgiven. Peters name was not removed from the book of life. Had Peter brooded over his sin as Judas did and comitted suicide, he also would have been lost, and Jesus would have prayed, "Of all those whom you have given Me, only two have I lost. Judas the son of perdition, and Peter whom I fortold would betray me THRICE!

Hazard, with all due respect, from the moment we are born we all destined for Hell. It is up to sinful man, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost, to respond to G-d's call to salvation. While all may be saved, not all will be saved. Of the two examples you gave--Peter and Judas--how they lived their lives after their sin reveals the final condition of their hearts; obviously that Peter was a genuine believer and Judas never was. All through the Gospels, Judas is seen, while as a friend of Christ's, always yeilding to sinful impulses. I do believe that right up until he dipped his bread into that bowl he could have repented of his treachery, but chose not to. G-d knows the hearts of all men and He knows the path they will take. For example, during the Last Supper, our Lord said this:

I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.--John 13:18

Jesus is directly quoting Psalm 41:9, the complete text of which goes like this:

Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

So even as far back as the OT, there are clues to the Lord's great plan of salvation.

[Enquirer]

Floatingaxe wrote;

"No one knows whether Judas repented or not. He was surely remorseful."

.

He may have been remorseful no worries, but even before Jesus was put to death, Judas was only sorry that he had betrayed Jesus, and he tried to return the money, hoping they might let Jesus go because Jesus was innocent of all charges against Him. The chief priests and Elders said, "What is that to us?" Matt. 27:4). They didn't care, they finally had Jesus who had escaped many times before ("Therefore they sought ""AGAIN"" to take him: but He escaped out of their hand," John 10:39), and thats all they wanted! When Judas saw that Jesus was caught and condemned to death, INSTEAD OF ESCAPING AS HE HAD DONE SO MANY TIMES BEFORE Judas was sorry and he repented himself, (Matt. 27:3), that is, he only regretted what he had done. He never went out and wept in repentance, or even just simply repented, as Peter did, when he realized what he had done in denying Jesus three times as Jesus had prophesised???? Judas, instead of repenting, brooded over his sin, he gave in to Satans temptation and committed suicide. He did commit suicide and to commit suice is to refuse Jesus Christ's death as repayement for sin. You see, Judas believed Satan, he assumed his sin was too great and just unforgivable, but not so!!!! God forgives all sin repented of in Jesus Holy Name because Jesus paid the penalty for us. The penalty for sin is death thats for sure, but Jesus paid the penalty. He does not require us to pay it. All Judas had to do is repent which he did not do, he killed himself instead anmd thats copping out even in these end times. Only a coward goes down that road.

There are two different words that are translated from the Greek to English "Repent." One of them is strictly passive, indicating no action whatsoever on the part of the "Penitent" and it is a word that should have been more correctly translated "remorse." The other is active and reflects acts of a contrite and penitent heart.

Judas was sorry for his action, but did not act upon his sorrow. He rather acted upon self destruction, which is not a reflection of repentence, but further rebellion agaisnt the God who made him.

[Enquirer]

Hazard, with all due respect, from the moment we are born we all destined for Hell. It is up to sinful man, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost, to respond to G-d's call to salvation. While all may be saved, not all will be saved. Of the two examples you gave--Peter and Judas--how they lived their lives after their sin reveals the final condition of their hearts; obviously that Peter was a genuine believer and Judas never was. All through the Gospels, Judas is seen, while as a friend of Christ's, always yeilding to sinful impulses. I do believe that right up until he dipped his bread into that bowl he could have repented of his treachery, but chose not to. G-d knows the hearts of all men and He knows the path they will take. For example, during the Last Supper, our Lord said this:

I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.--John 13:18

Jesus is directly quoting Psalm 41:9, the complete text of which goes like this:

Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

So even as far back as the OT, there are clues to the Lord's great plan of salvation.

As far back as the old testament there are also examples of how God saved his people, and they ALWAYS involve repentence. When the people forgot God and fell into rebellion, God would send them a conqueror; they would serve for a generation in slavery; They would then remember God, and pray and repent; God would then send them a deliverer. This went on for over four hundred years, cycling again and again, and can be read about in the book of Judges.

Nehemiah 9:25b-27 tells us "..so they did eat and were filled and became fat and delighted themselves in thy great goodness. Nevertheless they were disobedient and rebelled against thee and cast thy law behind their backs and slew thy prophets which testified against them to turn them to thee, and they wrought great provocations. Therefore thou deli veredst them into the hand of their enemies who vexed them; and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

And in verse 28 "But after they had rest, they did evil again before thee; therefore leftest thou them in the hand of their enemies so that they ahd the dominion over them: yet when they returned (repented), and cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and MANY TIMES didst thou deliver them according to thy mercies..." And the account continues to expand on the subject through verse 31.

And Acts 5:30-31 tells us "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom ye slew and hangded. Him hath God exalted with his right hand TO BE a prince and a saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

It was always God will that Israel repent. It was also always God way to give man the choice as reflected in "Choose YE this day whom YE will serve" as recorded in Joshua's record of events.

It has ALWAYS been a matter of God's grace, man's choice, and God's judgment; man's repentance, God's mercy, and God's love.

[HAZARD]

We were all destined to hell but the sacrifice of Jesus prevent's this from happening. God has in place a basis for dealing with people who have never heard of the gospel or Jesus, God will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience (Romans 2:12-16).

Scriptures also teaches that there will be degrees of reward in Heaven and also degrees of punishment in Hell.

Saints will be rewarded according to their works; Read, (Matt. 10:41-42; 16:27; Romans 14:10-12; 2 Cor. 5:10-11; Rev. 22:12).

These Scriptures show that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell according to sins comitted, and rewards in Heaven according to our works, the good things done in our lives.

Jesus taught that it would be more tolerable for some in the day of judgment than for others (Matt. 11:20-24); that some would be found to be two-fold more a child of Hell than others, and will recieve "greater damnation" (Matt. 23:14-15); and that every man will be judged according to his works (Rev. 20:11-15). These Scriptures cannot be denied.

[Marnie]

We were all destined to hell but the sacrifice of Jesus prevent's this from happening. God has in place a basis for dealing with people who have never heard of the gospel or Jesus, God will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience (Romans 2:12-16).

Scriptures also teaches that there will be degrees of reward in Heaven and also degrees of punishment in Hell.

Saints will be rewarded according to their works; Read, (Matt. 10:41-42; 16:27; Romans 14:10-12; 2 Cor. 5:10-11; Rev. 22:12).

These Scriptures show that there will be degrees of punishment in Hell according to sins comitted, and rewards in Heaven according to our works, the good things done in our lives.

Jesus taught that it would be more tolerable for some in the day of judgment than for others (Matt. 11:20-24); that some would be found to be two-fold more a child of Hell than others, and will recieve "greater damnation" (Matt. 23:14-15); and that every man will be judged according to his works (Rev. 20:11-15). These Scriptures cannot be denied.

Jesus' sacrifice is only effective if it is appropriated.

[HAZARD]

Unrepentant sinners will not recieve eternal life with God, but eternal life in Hell.

Marnie wrote.

"Jesus' sacrifice is only effective if it is appropriated."

.

What about the hundreds of millions of people throughout the ages, and even now, who have never heard of Jesus or the Gospel?

God has a basis for dealing with all these people. God will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved and upon the basis of obeying their own conscience (Read, Romans 2:12-16). Paul stated in Romans 2:12-16 that God will do the right thing by every man according to the light he has recieved. He said, "For as many as have sinned with-out law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do BY NATURE the things in the law, these, having not the law, are A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: which shew the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their CONSCIENCE also baring witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accursing or excusing one another;) In the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

[cjrose]

From my point of view, this had to be in Gods Grand design. Firstly, Judas was never truly a "part" of Jesus' followers but a part of God's plan. Even Mary, the Holy Mother questioned Judas on occassion and Judas was constantly in league with the Pharasees and I don't think he truly believed until the epifany of what he had done and felt great remorse. Instead of falling on his knees for repentence he killed himself feeling no other way out.

It's a choice we all must make at some point in our lives. To repent or deny. And before it's too late.