Guest Scaramallion Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Atheism comes across to this particular observer as on a par with Molotov WTO rioters and transgendered bike messengers. Ignorance re God and creation is curable. Stupidity is forever. Biogenesis all by itself debunks the fallacious whims and nostrums of the inert, blind and mindless god Chance element. From nothing comes nothing. No chairs, no automobiles, no houses, no computers, no clothes, no food, no mountains, no loved ones, forsooth no enemies either. It tends to pick my craw. As soon as a self-concocted "atheist" can produce a Starbucks expresso without a Starbucks or an expresso, zowie, we're en route at last! The right for a self-concocted "atheist" to be heard doesn't automatically guarantee the right to be taken seriously. Apologies to Hubert. If SpiritedDefense's admonision extends to me, and you would like me to leave, simply get an admin or moderator to ask me. I have no intention of posting somewhere I am not wanted. I came here because atheism was being discussed - or more correctly, insulted. Doubtlessly you would like the opportunity to respond to an atheist when he was disparaging Christianity. Doubtlessly you would like the chance to demolish a big a strawman as the OP was. Turnabout is fair play. But if you want me to leave, I will. A comment on the eternal torture and pain version of Hell: Does the idea of a place where people are tortured forever (I know forever is hard to imagine, but think about it this way. If I die in five minute, I will be in Hell - according to you. Now, span forward 90 trillion years - I'm still there, writhing in agony. Span forward another 900 trillion years - still there. And so on.) make sense to you? How can I commit a crime so big that the punishment would be infinite? The crime itself would have to be infinite to warrent such a punishment. Furthermore, how can a God you describe as 'all-loving' create such a monstrosity of injustice? I doubt you would consider life imprisonment a just punishment for a jaywalker. And this example is an underexaggeration by a factor of infinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted February 16, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2004 Hello friend, I came here because atheism was being discussed - or more correctly, insulted. Doubtlessly you would like the opportunity to respond to an atheist when he was disparaging Christianity. Doubtlessly you would like the chance to demolish a big a strawman as the OP was. Did you feel called or were you asked? My knees no longer bend for any master or god. If there is someone out there for whom, as you claim, I will bend my knee, it will only be because my knees were broken first." The last part of that statement is the critical part. Therein lies your problem my friend. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scaramallion Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 CORRECTION: Before I said that God appeared as three men to eat at Abraham's table. It was, after I checked, God plus two angels who ate with Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scaramallion Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I was neither called, nor asked. A link from another board I frequent came back to another one of your discussion, I took a look around, found this topic and thought I'd add some comments. I noticed you had nothing to say on being forced to believe in a god on threat of pain. Perhaps you would like to comment on why you won't bend your knee to Allah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagz4Christ Posted February 16, 2004 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 511 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1975 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Scaramallion, While I cannot say I understand your thoughts on this subject, I certainly can appreciate where you are coming from. Hello, my name is sagz and I have a friend I am talking to about athiesm and Christianity. Actually, we are, or WERE talking about creation verse evolution, but a ton of subjects have been and will be breeched along the way of our discussion. You are welcome to join in and contribute. I know it can seem pretty hostile when talking to Christians about what they believe, but in the spirit if kindness, I would ask that EVERYONE involved exhibit alittle more tolerance of others views. You see, it is what our Lord wants from us who call ourselves Christians. It is called "long-suffering," or "patience." It is also what everyone demands us Christians have for other beliefs. "Tolerance." It is, sadly, the last thing most have for the Christian beliefs though. I would love to talk further with you and find out what you believe the way you do, what gripes you have against the God of the Bible, and anything else you may have questions about. But I can only do that if you are willing to join me in a civilized discussion of facts and life. I hope to see you around for awhile. Fovezer can tell you more about me if you wish to know from anther source how I operate. Until then, peace...... ~serving Christ in faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fovezer Posted February 16, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/27/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2004 Scaramallion, While I cannot say I understand your thoughts on this subject, I certainly can appreciate where you are coming from. Hello, my name is sagz and I have a friend I am talking to about athiesm and Christianity. Actually, we are, or WERE talking about creation verse evolution, but a ton of subjects have been and will be breeched along the way of our discussion. You are welcome to join in and contribute. I know it can seem pretty hostile when talking to Christians about what they believe, but in the spirit if kindness, I would ask that EVERYONE involved exhibit alittle more tolerance of others views. You see, it is what our Lord wants from us who call ourselves Christians. It is called "long-suffering," or "patience." It is also what everyone demands us Christians have for other beliefs. "Tolerance." It is, sadly, the last thing most have for the Christian beliefs though. I would love to talk further with you and find out what you believe the way you do, what gripes you have against the God of the Bible, and anything else you may have questions about. But I can only do that if you are willing to join me in a civilized discussion of facts and life. I hope to see you around for awhile. Fovezer can tell you more about me if you wish to know from anther source how I operate. Until then, peace...... ~serving Christ in faith Scaramallion, as a fellow atheist, I suggest if you want to have a meaningful discussion about atheism/theism, then Sagz here is one of the best to have it with. He will actually try and see things from your point of view, and not blindly insult atheists or atheism. He is a good guy! Him and Saved By Grace are the two best ines here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 17, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 17, 2004 An appeal to the Worthy Board members: Proverbs 17 27 A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. 28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. Remember, when Jesus instructed His disciples to go out to minister, one of his instructions were that if their words were not received to leave the place. (i.e. Matthew 10) The ministry of the Gospel is too precious to be lost in endless butting heads debates. I know everyone wants to come out with "just that one thing," but how often does such actually happen? I've heard from more than one former athiest that all they needed to know was to call on the name of the Lord in times of trouble. They rejected the word, of course, when they were given it, but some time later in life they did come to that point of desperation and called on His name - and the Lord delivered them. That is why they believe in Him now, not because someone with mere argumentation "proved" anything. If you have an honest desire to discuss, that's fine, otherwise, it is best to pick up your cloak and and "shake off the dust" and move on, as Jesus commanded. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted February 17, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2004 Hello again friend, I will not ceaselessly debate you . Your mind is already made up. The threat of pain you speak of is no threat. You already are living under it. That doesn't mean you don't deserve Grace. I noticed you had nothing to say on being forced to believe in a god on threat of pain. I was already dead and in great pain. The curse was already set in motion. I made a free will concious decision to Live.To answer the calling on my life. The calling on all of man. Despite the fact that my logical mind said no. I sought the only way to be free. Jesus Christ! So actually no threat of pain . Rather promise of release from said pain which had already taken hold. :il: This is the very great Will of God for my Life . That I be free to Love the Lord with all my heart, soul, and strength. That I take my inheritence and rather than squander it. That I use it for His very Great Glory! Rather than cursing the Lord by my free will choice to live in pain, simply because I feel my way is better. I have given way to my will and sought only His! Perhaps you would like to comment on why you won't bend your knee to Allah? I have a relationship with the Living Lord God , Jesus Christ. Thus knowing what I know . The Truth! It has set me free. Therefore also I know this; Ac 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him does this man stand here before you whole. Ac 4:11 This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the head of the corner. Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, by which we must be saved. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted February 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I have said it before, and I will say it again, no one can rightly say, "There is no God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted February 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted February 18, 2004 And yet, the New Testament is the only source of information on Jesus's miracles. The only other source that I particularly give any credit to is the 'original' version of Josephus before the Christian redactors got their hands on it. And all this proves is that a person named Jesus was claiming to be a messiah. Josephus is only one extra-Biblical account. And his writings not only confirm Jesus as the Messiah, but that He died and arose on the third day, as the Biblical account records. In addition to mentioning Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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