wordsower Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I know the answer, if you care to study a little: When God created the heavens and the earth He rested on the 7th day...........The 1st through 6th days of creation end with "and the evening and the sun were the 1st, 2nd and so on day, but the 7th has no such ending because it was intended to be a permanent state of rest. The rest ended when sin ended it. The 4th commandment is a reminder of that rest "Remember" points Israel back to a specific time and "to" points them forward to an action. The Sabbath was a command given specifically to Israel. There is no biblical record whatsoever of anybody keeping the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16 (Neh. 9:13-14). Even after they received the full-blown Sabbath command (Ex. 20:8-11), Israel who often condemned the sins of her pagan neighbors, never criticized their violation of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was part of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 I was referring to djconklin's agenda as an SDA. He only comes on here and drags up all the old Sabbath posts from years ago and only debates in them. He does not come here and interact in any other area, no fellowship, no relationship, he only comes here to argue the Sabbath posts. It IS his main agenda and he's pushing only SDA doctrine and only comes here to be contentious on this one issue - this his agenda. So...Why do you have a problem with this? Should Mr Conklin study this point out of Gods Word and would like to pass it on to others, why should this offend you? Gifts are given! What is yours? I see his. Shalom, For someone very new to this board, perhaps you might read a little more to know more about what you're talking about. His agenda is spreading false gospel according to his SDA doctrine, not the Bible. That is not a gift and false doctrine is offensive to Christians. My "gifts" are refuting false gospel with the truth. And what are yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 I have many friends that worship on Sunday and they are the most spiritual people I know. However I do believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath. Constintine started saying that the Sabbath should be both Saturday and Sunday to please both Christians and Pagans. The Pagans worshipped Ra, the sun god, on Sunday. And then it just started becoming easier to all worship the same day, which became Sunday. The papacy has even said that the Catholic church changed it and if you aren't Catholic and want to follow the biblical Sabbath you should be in a 7th-day church such as the Seventh-Day Adventists, Seventh-Day Church of God, or Seventh-Day Baptist. And the people said"AMEN"! Shalom, And are you too an SDA? Otherwise you would not say "Amen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 I always find it interesting that with regard to this particular commandment, we always focus on the 1st portion and TOTALLY NEGLECT the 2nd portion, which falls under the category of loving others: Deut 5:12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. If we employ people to work on the day of Worship, then they are not free to hear the Word of God preached. They are not free to worship God, as He intended for them. If you notice it mentions the Egyptians and the Israelites above. It is reminding us that Pharoah would not "free" God's people to go and worship Him in the place He commanded, because he wanted them to "work" instead. It is the same today. There was a time, when all people had the day off to go to worship God, collectively. This is no longer the case. Exodus 5:1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the desert.'" 2 Pharaoh said, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the Lord and I will not let Israel go." 4 But the king of Egypt said, "Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!" 5 Then Pharaoh said, "Look, the people of the land are now numerous, and you are stopping them from working." People still need that 1 designated day to be free to go and worship their God, and if they do not worship God, then they should be free to possibly go and hear. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 As i read this topic it is really not an issue of apologetics (defending the faith). It is really more of an issue of doctrine and theology. I am moving it from Aplogetics to the Doctrinal Issues Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 The New Testament specifically tells us that we have been freed from the Sabbath command. Paul told the Colossians, " He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. ...Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day" (Colossians 2:13-16). Now for those who wish to continue to follow the Old Testament laws in all their forms as given to Israel, then have you also followed all of the penalties for not perfectly keeping the Sabbath which I am sure you have not done? sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 The New Testament specifically tells us that we have been freed from the Sabbath command. Paul told the Colossians, " He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. ...Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day" (Colossians 2:13-16). Now for those who wish to continue to follow the Old Testament laws in all their forms as given to Israel, then have you also followed all of the penalties for not perfectly keeping the Sabbath which I am sure you have not done? sw Shalom SW, No, the Bible has not "freed" us from G-d's Word. The Ten Commandments still stand, all 10 of them. Jesus did not come to "abolish" the Law or the Prophets. And not "all" has been accomplished. Heaven and Earth have not passed away, so the Law still stands. Matthew 5 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you,until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. As for "keeping the Sabbath perfectly" what specifically do you accuse that we have not done? And how do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 I always find it interesting that with regard to this particular commandment, we always focus on the 1st portion and TOTALLY NEGLECT the 2nd portion, which falls under the category of loving others: Deut 5:12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. If we employ people to work on the day of Worship, then they are not free to hear the Word of God preached. They are not free to worship God, as He intended for them. If you notice it mentions the Egyptians and the Israelites above. It is reminding us that Pharoah would not "free" God's people to go and worship Him in the place He commanded, because he wanted them to "work" instead. It is the same today. There was a time, when all people had the day off to go to worship God, collectively. This is no longer the case. Exodus 5:1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the desert.'" 2 Pharaoh said, "Who is the Lord, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the Lord and I will not let Israel go." 4 But the king of Egypt said, "Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the people away from their labor? Get back to your work!" 5 Then Pharaoh said, "Look, the people of the land are now numerous, and you are stopping them from working." People still need that 1 designated day to be free to go and worship their God, and if they do not worship God, then they should be free to possibly go and hear. In His Love, Suzanne Shalom, Those who believe in observing the Sabbath would never employ others on the Sabbath. Christians who work for secular bosses should insist on ONE day for rest and worship. That has nothing to do with this topic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 The New Testament specifically tells us that we have been freed from the Sabbath command. Paul told the Colossians, " He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. ...Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day" (Colossians 2:13-16). Now for those who wish to continue to follow the Old Testament laws in all their forms as given to Israel, then have you also followed all of the penalties for not perfectly keeping the Sabbath which I am sure you have not done? sw Shalom SW, No, the Bible has not "freed" us from G-d's Word. The Ten Commandments still stand, all 10 of them. Jesus did not come to "abolish" the Law or the Prophets. And not "all" has been accomplished. Heaven and Earth have not passed away, so the Law still stands. Matthew 5 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you,until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. As for "keeping the Sabbath perfectly" what specifically do you accuse that we have not done? And how do you know? As I said, if all of the OT testaments laws given to Israel are still applicable for you today do you also subscribe to the penalties? Do you seriously believe you have kept the Sabbath perfectly? What about all of the other OT provisions? Pulleeze! Also your argument is with the Apostle and the God who inspired him and not me. sw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 The New Testament specifically tells us that we have been freed from the Sabbath command. Paul told the Colossians, " He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. ...Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day" (Colossians 2:13-16). Now for those who wish to continue to follow the Old Testament laws in all their forms as given to Israel, then have you also followed all of the penalties for not perfectly keeping the Sabbath which I am sure you have not done? sw Shalom SW, No, the Bible has not "freed" us from G-d's Word. The Ten Commandments still stand, all 10 of them. Jesus did not come to "abolish" the Law or the Prophets. And not "all" has been accomplished. Heaven and Earth have not passed away, so the Law still stands. Matthew 5 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you,until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. As for "keeping the Sabbath perfectly" what specifically do you accuse that we have not done? And how do you know? As I said, if all of the OT testaments laws given to Israel are still applicable for you today do you also subscribe to the penalties? Do you seriously believe you have kept the Sabbath perfectly? What about all of the other OT provisions? Pulleeze! Also your argument is with the Apostle and the God who inspired him and not me. sw Shalom, Pulleeeze! How ridiculous. I love it when people use this as a cop-out when they have no Scriptural fact to reply: "Also your argument is with the Apostle and the God who inspired him and not me." Right. Sorry, but YOUR argument is with Jesus, in the verses I posted above since HE said in His own Words that He did not come to abolish the Law. So, take it up with Him and not me. Not all the Laws of the OT are applicable for today, but the Sabbath is. So your "penalty" argument is actually a Straw Man. Focus on the Sabbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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