TomPJr Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hello, I've been reading through these comments and would like to respond to all... First of all God did bless and sanctify a certain day, not just any of our choosing, but the seventh day, which God chose himself. Does any of you think that you can choose a better day? Maybe the seventh day may not seem convenient for you, but that is where faith comes in and there remains a special blessing for those whoe honor the Sabbath. Some people say that we aren't required to keep the Sabbath...That is so rediculus....think about it... We must work to earn a living and pay our bills and accomplish anything in our lives, but God specifically sanctified a special day when we can rest apart from our daily worries and work, so that we could focus our attention on him and what he has done. We can't honor the Sabbath everyday. The Sabbath is a time for us to recharge and reflect on Gods creation.... yes, we can and should think on those things daily, but the Sabbath is a date with God when we surrender all other worries and focus on God for the whole day. We cannot do that everyday with all the stuff we must do. He has given us all of our time here and only asks for one seventh back. the Sabbath was not given to the Jews...It was given to mankind in the Garden of eden. Adam and eve honored the Sabbath. God instituted the Sabbath at creation....he rested the Seventh day and sanctified it. Blessings, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted August 23, 2007 The Sabbath is very important to God. Those who obey the Spirit will honor the Sabbath. I'm not talking about manipulative religious control as you have experienced in the 7th Day Adventist denomination. That is why you don't understand what I'm saying. You have no other frame of reference except a bad one. It is very clear that the Sabbath is from sundown friday to sundown saturday according to God. Man can change that all he wants...it doesn't change the Word. The confusion comes in where we try to equate the Sabbath with "go-to-church" day. They are not even vaguely related. Even more confusion arises as men try to define what God means by "rest". I find that "resting" is a hard thing to do! Everything within me wants to "get ahead", "finish the job quickly", and "worry" about the things of this world. God says we should take the time to stop and reflect on His power and wisdom in creation. Then everything is reset in it's correct perspective He has set aside a time for that. We can meet Him there if we choose, or not. If you have been bought by the blood of a Lamb all your sins have been removed (not just covered) so you can break any part of the law and still "get to heaven" if that is as far as you wish to go in the Lord. Or you can go deeper into His blessing through any/all acts of obedience....its our choice...because He has the grace to allow us to choose -------------------- What? Me worry? OK, tyring to take it in the context that you present makes it even more confusing to me, because if we say that the Sabbath is important to God then it will be equally important not to leave our dwelling place from Fri sundown to Sat sundown, or not to build a fire or carry a burden or even really, go to church since that is not allowed in the law of the Sabbath. I see the days of the week and time in it's entirety being the creation of God, not anything that He lives in or by. A creation for man, not man made for it, because it was implemented later. As far as the "rest" goes I understand it to be complete peace and trust in Jesus. The physical resting of a day in the shadow becomes our Rest that promised to take our burdens and He would give us rest for our souls.....not our bodies. Looking at the topic in a physical light will not get the true meaning of it. I'm not saying, do what you want, need no bible, whatever sarcasm you are suggesting, I'm saying everyday should be as holy as the next and we should't differentiate in any of them. How can you say that everyday is as Holy as the next? God definately differentiated when he created them and specifically blessed and sanctified the seventh day as a memorial of creation and a time of re-creation for us...to renew our hearts with him. All Christians should live holy each day, but we still have jobs to do, houses and cars to maintain, all of which detracts from total devotion to God. This is where the Sabbath comes in. It's strange that so many people make excuses not to rest, when God just wants us to rest from our daily worries or work, and rest in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hello, I've been reading through these comments and would like to respond to all... First of all God did bless and sanctify a certain day, not just any of our choosing, but the seventh day, which God chose himself. Does any of you think that you can choose a better day? Maybe the seventh day may not seem convenient for you, but that is where faith comes in and there remains a special blessing for those whoe honor the Sabbath. Some people say that we aren't required to keep the Sabbath...That is so rediculus....think about it... We must work to earn a living and pay our bills and accomplish anything in our lives, but God specifically sanctified a special day when we can rest apart from our daily worries and work, so that we could focus our attention on him and what he has done. We can't honor the Sabbath everyday. The Sabbath is a time for us to recharge and reflect on Gods creation.... yes, we can and should think on those things daily, but the Sabbath is a date with God when we surrender all other worries and focus on God for the whole day. We cannot do that everyday with all the stuff we must do. He has given us all of our time here and only asks for one seventh back. the Sabbath was not given to the Jews...It was given to mankind in the Garden of eden. Adam and eve honored the Sabbath. God instituted the Sabbath at creation....he rested the Seventh day and sanctified it. Blessings, Tom Shalom, Exactly!! Amen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2007 Shalom, http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/.../afterword.html Christians and Shabbat - Celebration not Obligation... Mark 2:27 HNT Shabbat was made for man, and not man for Shabbat. - Jesus Jesus is our Sabbath Rest Since the Sabbath was part of the terms of the covenant given to Israel on Mt. Sinai (i.e., it was part of the sefer habrit given to Moses, and ratified by the 70 elders of Israel through the shedding of the sacrificial blood of animals), Christians are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 OK, tyring to take it in the context that you present makes it even more confusing to me, because if we say that the Sabbath is important to God then it will be equally important not to leave our dwelling place from Fri sundown to Sat sundown, or not to build a fire or carry a burden or even really, go to church since that is not allowed in the law of the Sabbath. And that comes from a christian theological interpretation...not necessarily a biblical one. The Torah is/was the Constitution of Israel. The intent behind every decree comes from the Lord Himself and therefore is a glimpse into His character. He defines what is true and it is reflected in the "Bill of Rights" (Torah) for Israel. The problem is that humans define righteousness as if it is the same thing as morality. Choosing our own way can be "moral" and yet unrighteous at the same time Let me use an extreme hyperbole as an example of something that is clearly against His will; Abortion has become morally acceptable today. Can someone have an abortion and find forgiveness in the Lord? OF COURSE THEY CAN!!! But does it make that act "righteous"? We all know the answer to that one. So God gave Israel a Constitution to create a nation for Himself out of a few million Eygptian slaves. The Torah is addressed to Israel and those who would sojourn with them in the promised land but not even Israel could observe the law when they were taken into captivity to Babylon. So how could this EVER apply to gentiles in foreign lands? Simple. This is exactly what Yeshua established and the Apostles furthered. It is the "spirit" of the Law that matters. Are christians keeping the spirit of the law by choosing one day in seven? Yes, they are....but no matter what Justin Martyr says, the Bible says they have chosen a day of their own will. Nana can quote all the christian commentaries she wants but until the words of the bible agree it is meaningless human wisdom. I don't think anyone will be refused entry into His Kingdom for choosing to observe another day (unlike 7th day Adventist teachings which say Sunday is the mark of the beast) but that is exactly what western-cultural-christian-theology has done. When I first began studying the roots of how this happened, I was an atheist trying to prove that christians were idiots. I found lots of ammunition that I won't use today...but the change of the Sabbath came about because of racist attitudes of the Roman world that were reflected within gentiles who started a separate religious institution....and called it "church" While I'm at it...there is no evidence in the Bible that "the Lord's Day" is Sunday either. It is only another theological device of christian interpretation. I'm not saying, do what you want, need no bible, whatever sarcasm you are suggesting, I'm saying everyday should be as holy as the next and we should't differentiate in any of them. I'm not trying to pick on you specifically but your post presented the best opportunity to make my (sarcastic) point. Surely something in the Bible is meant for us to heed, right? It is inconsistant to say God's Word is true...except where He speaks about the Sabbath. I believe everyday is holy to the Lord also....yet He made a distinction among the days for some reason. Shall I follow a religious institution, a theology, a cultural morality, or even my own conviction where it conflicts with His stated Word? There doesn't appear to be any heavenly consequence for it...so why not? That appears to be the "norm" of people....secular or christian. If the spirit of the law is kept, I don't think there is a serious problem...but it has to be based on something truthful (letter of the law) or it is a religious fabrication. The truth is that God gave Israel the Sabbath and for good reason. Change it if you wish; but don't say it doesn't exist or matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2007 Shalom, http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture...fourth_cmd.html Aseret Hadiberot - The Fourth Commandment Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Exodus 20:8 Introduction Shabbat begins at sunset on Friday evening and ends Saturday night when three stars are visible in the sky (25 hours). On Shabbat we remember that God created the world and then rested from His labors. The commandment to observe the Sabbath comes from the Fourth Commandment, of course, which actually spans three pesukim (verses) and is by far the longest of the Ten Commandments. In its entirety the commandment reads: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Ex 20:8-11) The Meaning of Shabbat The word shabbat ("Sabbath") is clearly connected to the verb shavat, meaning "to cease, desist, rest." The root first appears in Genesis 2:2-3 regarding God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPJr Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 387 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/11/1977 Share Posted August 23, 2007 I still wonder why everybody will agree that we must follow the rest of the ten commandments... don't steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, etc..., but so many try so hard to forget the only commandment that stars with the word remember. the forth commandment is "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY...." Not a sabbath day, but THE Sabbath day. The one God ordained. There is such a blessing in it, so why do so many people try to get rid of it, or say it's just like any other day? God Sanctified it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2007 I still wonder why everybody will agree that we must follow the rest of the ten commandments... don't steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, etc..., but so many try so hard to forget the only commandment that stars with the word remember. the forth commandment is "REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY...." Not a sabbath day, but THE Sabbath day. The one God ordained. There is such a blessing in it, so why do so many people try to get rid of it, or say it's just like any other day? God Sanctified it. Shalom Tom, Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whollybybill Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 8 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 23, 2007 All these tough questions coming as I'm leaving for work. The Old Testament Sabbath was on Saturday and there is no question about that. In one extra-Biblical book I read, I think at the Wesleyan reading room, there is a reference to a group of believers voting to observe a day of worship on Sunday because of the ressurection, however there is nothing I have read anywhere that says God changed the sabbath to the first day of the week, Sunday. On the other hand, I do not believe we are required to observe the Saturday sabbath, not because it was in the Old Covenant, but because it was a type and shadow of something greater, the rest we enter into when we come to know Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and cease from our sinful labours. To keep the sabbath today is to enter into Christ's rest as we turn away from sin to serve him. I base this on scriptures found in Romans chapter 4. Originally God limited man to a single day of rest, but today we rest in Jesus everyday. read Matthew 24:20 No offense but you should stay within the scriptures as everything u said above sounds good and is with good intentions but really takes away from the bible actually says. Where are you pulling that from? Jesus came not to change the law but to fullfill the law. The Sabbath day was considered a holy day for the Eloheem when they rested. We were to observe that day of rest also. Because of the changes in the calender one does't really know when the sabbath day is to be practised. traditionally it was saturday now its sunday. Yes it used to be saturday but was changed to sunday by the Laodicean Council. this might help:changed from sunday And guess what was said to laodicean church via johns vision in revelation 3:15-16 "I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spit you out of my mouth This was the foreseen judgement on The laodicean church and its council why would you follow them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted August 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Because of the changes in the calender one does't really know when the sabbath day is to be practised. No calendar change has ever stopped the 7th day from being the 7th day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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