America - Babylon the Great?

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes Israel has more than 7 mountains. I am talking about Jerusalem.

Even the airlines in Israel knows that Jerusalem is built on 7 hills.

Are they racist too?

http://www.israirairlines.com/guide.asp?id...amp;menu_id=254

Holy Sites in Jerusalem

Throughout the history of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths have treasured the sacredness of the Holy Land and its Holy City Jerusalem. From the uniqueness of this City built on Seven Hills, each faith has flourished.

What a crock. That is based on the "Book of Legends," not upon the Scripture. It goes back to post-biblical midrashic literature that dates to just before the Medieval period. The "hills" are actually summits such as Scopious, Nob, a ridge between the Trytopean valley and the Kidron Valley and other places of similar ilk. They are not literally "hills." Jerusalem sits on Mt. Moriah, which is really more of a mountain range than a single mountain. Jerusalem is surrounded by ridges, summits and valleys, not separate "hills."

What a compassionate teacher you are!

I don't possess much patience for those who take every opportunity to disparage Israel. Like I said, I stand by everything I say.

David, Im pretty new here, and so far I have seen some very responsible posts from a whole lot of worthy 'officials'...But some how, the tone of your posts in this particular thread has taken me aback..And more so when I see them responding to a womans post..A newbie like me may form an alternate impression about you, which I think is not right!

God Bless you bro!

I am an honest person; brutally honest, but I make absolutely no secret about how I feel about the way Israel and by extension, the Jewish people, are presented to and by the Christian world. It is particulary problematic when this contempt for Israel is stoked by twisted, irresponsible applications of Scripture.

To use very Bible the Jews gave to the world to delegitmize them as a nation and as the chosen people, to justify moral indifference toward their struggle against those who seek their complete utter annihilation is nothing new, and was the general response to their suffering during the Holocaust and is the same response seen by people like KatyAnn who strongly imply that supporting Israel is a "strong delusion" sent upon those who believe a lie and love unrighteousness.

Israel/Jerusalem is routinely and unfairly compared to the worst regimes and empires the world has ever produced. Israel, in the media, is compared to Nazi Germany, the racist apartheid government that once existed in South Africa, and of course in religious circles, it is denigrated as "Babylon." Every single comparison fails miserably upon an examination of the facts. No other nation in the world bears the brunt of such unjustified, irrational and universal denigration and contempt. Even the name "Palestine" was used to name the Land after Philistines, Israel's OT arch enemies. It is a label that sticks to the Land even today. Not even the modern Bible map makers will call the Land by the name God calls it: "Israel."

By publicly equating Israel with the biblical seat of worldwide paganism, by equating Israel/Jerusalem with the system of pagan idolatry after which many other pagan cultures were patterned, and to use the New Testament (written by Israelite Jews) to justify such misguided theology, is irresponsible. It only reinforces Jewish unbelief in Christ.

You can think about me whatever you want. I really, really don't care. I stand by everything I have said.

[nebula]

Jerusalem is the Lord's chosen city. It's all throughout Scripture. The world of prophecy centers around Zion.

Matt. 23

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' "

Jerusalem cannot be Babylon - for who will cry, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" to Yeshua?

Likewise:

Rev. 18:19 They [shipmaster, etc.] threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth!

Hardly something Jerusalem is known for!

Rev. 18

23 The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

Do you associate Jerusalem with merchants who were the great men of the Earth?

Babylon is associated with bringing wealth and prosperity. Do you see this with Jerusalem? I sure do not.

I am not into claiming The Roman Catholic Church as Babylon, but by the time John saw and wrote this vision, more Christian blood was spilled by Rome than by Jerusalem.

[Giaour]

"I think Babylon the Great represents a worldwide religious system. In chapter 17, a restoration of the original, anti-God paganism that was associated with the Tower of Babel in Genesis, and thus it bears the same name. But, I think it

[minnow]

For your consideration...

I cannot deny that I was taken by the symbolism of the Twin Towers in regard to Babel/Babylon, but during a discussion with Joshua in Israel (who was advancing the America = Babylon perspective) something came to me that provided me with a new insight into this section of Scripture.

In James, it talks about two kinds of wisdom - that from above (heavenly/spiritual) and that from below (demonic/unspiritual), and this is further expanded upon in Galatians 5 with regard to fruit.

What we do know is that the whole world is under control of the evil one, is in darkness, and is controlled by the flesh. However, Christ came to set us free from bondage to sin, to bring us into the light, and where we are controlled by the Spirit.

Furthermore, there is a day when Satan will be defeated, and the whole world will confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

Read through Proverbs 7 to Proverbs 9 and compare the differences between the personifications of Wisdom and Folly. Could it be said that these show forth Christ and Babylon?

Ultimately, the spiritual significance of the fall of Babylon and the final defeat of Satan is reflected in the reign of Christ and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on all flesh.

[Giaour]

bump

[eric]

Well at least, to my way of thinking anyway, that in post #33 tmr files is about as close to the mark as anyone else. At least she has researched the topic and not just making a lot of wild guesses like most are. I agree with her, a country is not a great city.

[kenod]

Babylon was in Iraq, the seven mountains you are referring to are symbolic not literal. It is the mystery we are to be concerned with in these verses and that mystery is Babylon will develop into a one world religion.

Rev 17: 7b "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, "

The "angel" speaking to John told him what some of the symbols in Rev 17 meant. I think it would be a bit presumptuous to re-interpret the interpretation, don't you?

woman = city (v18)

7 heads = 7 hills (v9)

10 horns = 10 kings (v12)

waters = peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues (v15)

The Mystery isn't where Babylon is, but what Babylon becomes.

You also left out the key part of verse 18, it does say "The woman is that great city". but the verse in it's entirety truly says " 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth".

Whatever that one world religion will be, it will be based out of Babylon and all the Kingdoms of the earth will submit to it.

Peace

CJ

No city in history has had such a prolonged and extensive influence over the kings of the earth as the Vatican. Even today, the Pope has great influence by diplomatic relations throughout the world.

When JP11 died, three US presidents kneeled in homage before his body. In The Revelation, kneeling is a form of worship (Rev 19:10; 22:8)

I don't think the "one world religion" will ever embrace all religions. Anything other than Christianity is false. The "red dragon" is going to try to defeat Christianity by uniting all the denominations under the antichrist beast.

Just the way I see it ...

.

Edited January 1, 2007 by kenod

[kenod]

Exactly, that uniting under the Antichrist will come via a false religion, like you said, anything that isn't Christianity is false, those that will support the Antichrist will do so under false pretenses. We're basically on the same point just not agreeing on the location of where this body of support will come from, as much as alot of people like to bash Catholicism Rome is definately not the home of a false religion, Catholicism is still Christianity no matter what any person's personal view's and opinions are, to state otherwise is denial of the facts. The Vatican still places Jesus Christ as the main focus of their belief system and that faith is based on the life of Christ His death and Resurrection, so to assume that Rev 17 is speaking of Rome is a bit of a stretch..unless you're going to imply that Catholicism is a false religion, which would just be plain ignorance.

Peace CJ

And the Jews devoutly and sincerely worshipped Jehovah, but they rejected the Word of God.

In the Garden of Eden there was the Tree of the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL.

Every denomination has many genuine Christian believers, including the RCC.

Jesus said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Remember that the "serpent" is very "subtil" (cunning). We need to look for something that will be able to deceive. Those whose loyalty is to a denominational system rather than to Jesus Christ will be deceived.

[minnow]

I find the increasing subservience given by member states to the Godless United Nations, with its tentacles of Secular Humanist policies infiltrating legislature for general adoption and enforcement (many of which are increasingly Anti-Christian in nature), to be noteworthy in light of the historical perspective relating to the Hellenization of the Jews under Antiochus Epiphanes found in the inter-testemental Jewish writings of 1 Maccabees.

[Christ's Free Servant]

I posted something in the General forum about the President's speech and then I kept thinking about a phrase in the song the Lord gave me:

Cause he worked and he built with his own two hands

And he poured all he had in a castle made with sand

But the wind and the rain are coming crashing in

Time will tell just how long his kingdom stands

His kingdom stands

And, that reminded me of something someone told me awhile back about this new American Embassy that is being built in Iraq (Babylon), and it was one of those "WOW" moments when I put 2 + 2 together. I believe the Lord is trying to show us something, and we need to be listening.

Check this out:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/