What if the bible is true?

[Questioner]

I'm reminded of the story of the old Russian women who lived many years in life with Christ. Her extreme age and many works of charity sparked an human interest story withthe local newspaper. the young reporter after asking her several questions about her life finally asked the question, "What if, when you die, you discover that everything that you believe in is wrong?" Her reply, "Well if I find that everything that I believe in is wrong then you and I are in the same boat, but if I find that everything I believe in I find to be true, then you are ina lot of trouble."

Now let's examine a better version of that story, which is known as Pascal's wager. The "better" version is what Pascal himself wrote:

"God is, or He is not. But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up… Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is."

"Pens

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Questioner,

You have left out of your equation, Jesus Christ.

What are you going to do with Him? He doesn't fit neatly into the little construct of a box your mind has Created.

He also smashes the Deists hopes to pieces.

Peace,

Dave

[AnotherTraveler]

Everyone that hears His WORD has an opportunity to respond or not.

Luke 7:31-32 (New King James Version)

And the Lord said, “To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, saying:

‘We played the flute for you,

And you did not dance;

We mourned to you,

And you did not weep.’

I hope and pray that you will respond. There is much to gain in responding and much to lose in not responding.

[Guest Intrigue]

Questioner,

You have left out of your equation, Jesus Christ.

What are you going to do with Him? He doesn't fit neatly into the little construct of a box your mind has Created.

He also smashes the Deists hopes to pieces.

I just have to wonder: if someone were able to give a counter-argument to what you are saying that was difficult to answer, would you silence him/her?

This is a Christian Apologetics forum and we don't apologize for that. We also reserve the right to edit threads and posts as we feel neccesary.

This is called an "apologetics" forum, meaning "defense". Meaning debate. And for God's sake, I hope it's an honest one. Is it really an honest debate if we close threads as soon as it looks like our side is not winning? Is it really a defense of the Gospel if we choose not to defend it from some questions but rather try to keep the questions from being asked?

Desiring to conduct ourselves honorably in all things.

-Hebrews 13:18

I've been reading through the apologetics forums and it looks like many people are getting silenced and banned because some of our members don't like what they are saying. Are we really conducting ourselves honorably if we silence and ban people when they disagree with us? It is just kind of sickening to me. I thought we were here to be the light of the world. I thought we were here to seek the truth.

Do we really have faith in Jesus's power to edify all people? Don't we really believe that Jesus's light can reach all people? Then why do we turn some people away?

Don't we believe that Jesus would welcome all questions? Then why do we refuse to allow some?

I'm sorry but I am very disappointed in the example we are setting of Christ. I don't believe this is how he would handle the situation.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Intrigue

[Floatingaxe]

Questioner,

You have left out of your equation, Jesus Christ.

What are you going to do with Him? He doesn't fit neatly into the little construct of a box your mind has Created.

He also smashes the Deists hopes to pieces.

I just have to wonder: if someone were able to give a counter-argument to what you are saying that was difficult to answer, would you silence him/her?

This is a Christian Apologetics forum and we don't apologize for that. We also reserve the right to edit threads and posts as we feel neccesary.

This is called an "apologetics" forum, meaning "defense". Meaning debate. And for God's sake, I hope it's an honest one. Is it really an honest debate if we close threads as soon as it looks like our side is not winning? Is it really a defense of the Gospel if we choose not to defend it from some questions but rather try to keep the questions from being asked?

Desiring to conduct ourselves honorably in all things.

-Hebrews 13:18

Are we really conducting ourselves honorably if we silence and ban people when they disagree with us? It is just kind of sickening to me. I thought we were here to be the light of the world. I thought we were here to seek the truth.

Do we really have faith in Jesus's power to edify all people? Don't we really believe that Jesus's light can reach all people? Then why do we turn some people away?

Don't we believe that Jesus would welcome all questions? Then why do we refuse to allow some?

I'm sorry but I am very disappointed in the example we are setting of Christ. I don't believe this is how he would handle the situation.

You're a newbie. Stick around some and you'll see there is much to be pleased with here. You haven't been here long enough to get so disappointed.

Jesus silenced demons, didn't He? Even those who declared Him who He was: the Son of God, for they had not the Grace to be convinced of it. He told them to shut up.

[Guest Intrigue]

Jesus silenced demons, didn't He? Even those who declared Him who He was: the Son of God, for they had not the Grace to be convinced of it. He told them to shut up.

I guess I just have trouble imagining Jesus telling anyone to "shut up". I always imagine him having the openness to listen to them and guide them to truth. That's what I try to do for people. I don't think telling them to shut up works so well.

[Guest Intrigue]

You're a newbie. Stick around some and you'll see there is much to be pleased with here. You haven't been here long enough to get so disappointed.

Could you tell me about some of these things so I don't get such a negative impression of the site? I would like to see everything that is happening here. I do believe in being fair.

[nebula]

It's funny to me how atheists relegate belief in God to what can be reasoned. As if I have to rationalize God in order for Him to exist - or you have the power to rationalize Him away!

To me, trying to rationalize the existence or non-existence of God is akin to trying to rationalize the existence or non-existence of the Sun.

But how can a man born blind understand the existence of clouds and all their different traits, or the color red, or the way the glow of the Sun changes the appearance of things. I see God like I see the clouds and the color red and how the appearance of things change in the glow of the Sun. And all the atheist can do is try to rationalize away my vision.

But to answer a previous charge, Christianity is not, should not be about a better afterlife. When Jesus began preaching here on Earth, His message was, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

Following Jesus in not an afterlife but a way of life. And no one in their right mind should claim it is an easy life. For Jesus said, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me." (Matt. 16:24) Following Jesus means you submit to His hand to purify you - which means, allegorically, pruning or being put through the refiner's fire. These processes hurt. But o the joy you experience from having gone through the suffering that brings forth new life!

Jesus recently saved me from my chronic depression. I can tell there are more steps to my healing, but the the underlying feeling of dread and death and darkness and sadness is all gone! All He did was speak to me having brought me to a place where I was able to truly understand His words, and having let His words become a part of me, I embraced what He said. For the first time in my life I could truly say, with meaning, "Thank-You Lord for my suffering." At that moment, all the pain was gone! The memories no longer brought tears nor a feeling of hopelessness.

God is real! I feel Him like the wind or the sun on my skin.

Jesus is alive, and that's all that matters to me! I'd go with Him anywhere, for He gave His all for me.

I know I cannot expect those of you who do not believe in Him to understand how I can feel love-sick for my Lord. But this is why I follow Him. It's as much for the here and now as the yet to come.

[nebula]

Hello, Intrigue!

I've been reading through the apologetics forums and it looks like many people are getting silenced and banned because some of our members don't like what they are saying. Are we really conducting ourselves honorably if we silence and ban people when they disagree with us? It is just kind of sickening to me. I thought we were here to be the light of the world. I thought we were here to seek the truth.

Do we really have faith in Jesus's power to edify all people? Don't we really believe that Jesus's light can reach all people? Then why do we turn some people away?

Don't we believe that Jesus would welcome all questions? Then why do we refuse to allow some?

I guess I just have trouble imagining Jesus telling anyone to "shut up". I always imagine him having the openness to listen to them and guide them to truth. That's what I try to do for people. I don't think telling them to shut up works so well.

Well, keep in mind that it was demons Jesus commanded to be quiet.

Do you remember when Jesus sent out the 72? Among His instructions, He said that if a house they visited did not receive them or their message, they should leave and shake the dust off their feet as a testament against them.

Likewise, there came a point when Jesus refused to engage the Pharisees et all in debate.

There comes a point when arguing and re-explaining becomes unproductive and even destructive.

Imagine trying to hold a Bible study with a person more interested in expressing his/her opinion on the matter than trying to understand what the Bible had to say. How can you minister to the people there looking for Biblical answers this way? There comes a point where for the sake of the true seekers, one must send away the distraction.

The Mods have found the "tough love" approach needs to applied at times.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

[systemstrike_7]

Hello, Intrigue!

I've been reading through the apologetics forums and it looks like many people are getting silenced and banned because some of our members don't like what they are saying. Are we really conducting ourselves honorably if we silence and ban people when they disagree with us? It is just kind of sickening to me. I thought we were here to be the light of the world. I thought we were here to seek the truth.

Do we really have faith in Jesus's power to edify all people? Don't we really believe that Jesus's light can reach all people? Then why do we turn some people away?

Don't we believe that Jesus would welcome all questions? Then why do we refuse to allow some?

I guess I just have trouble imagining Jesus telling anyone to "shut up". I always imagine him having the openness to listen to them and guide them to truth. That's what I try to do for people. I don't think telling them to shut up works so well.

Well, keep in mind that it was demons Jesus commanded to be quiet.

Do you remember when Jesus sent out the 72? Among His instructions, He said that if a house they visited did not receive them or their message, they should leave and shake the dust off their feet as a testament against them.

Likewise, there came a point when Jesus refused to engage the Pharisees et all in debate.

There comes a point when arguing and re-explaining becomes unproductive and even destructive.

Imagine trying to hold a Bible study with a person more interested in expressing his/her opinion on the matter than trying to understand what the Bible had to say. How can you minister to the people there looking for Biblical answers this way? There comes a point where for the sake of the true seekers, one must send away the distraction.

The Mods have found the "tough love" approach needs to applied at times.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

But you are sugarcoating this. Its not a matter of when an argument becomes endless, its about when someone that isn't of the faith is winning and argument, but suddenly gets shut down. If your god is infallible, then why are you scared of questions?