Doublet in Genesis

[tdrehfal]

In about 1972 when I was first studying this JEPD claptrap, I happened to pick up a journal and begin reading an article about lawyers.

The first page of the article was mostly taken up by a picture, so only had about two or three paragraphs of writing. In this writing lawyers were refered to three times, and all three times as 'lawyer' or 'lawyers.'

On page two of the article, I believe 'lawyer' was only used once, whereas 'attorney' occured 7 times. Page three had 'lawyer' twice, 'lawyers' three times, 'attorney' three times, and 'barrister' twice. On page 4 which only had 4 paragraphs, 'lawyer' 'barrister' and 'avocat' each occured once.

Further, throughout the article were interspersed several very negative jokes about lawyers.

Now by the standards of Higher Criticism, it would be absurd for Atlantic Monthly to expect us to believe this article was written by only one person! Why here we clearly have one source which new lawyers ONLY as 'lawyers.' We will call this source "L."

The source which called lawyers 'attorneys' OBVIOUSLY reflects a tradition of higher culture, and probably originated anciently at or near Boston, that hub of all that is truly cultured; and we will call this the "A" School.

The 'Barrister' reference clearly reflects a British document, which we will call "B", whereas the sole reference to 'avocat' proves that an Italian document was anciently in circulation; probably brought to these shores in the first two centuries of our era, by that Thor Whatshisname, on board the Kontiki to prove some esoteric point.

Only NOW that the LABI theory has made our studies of this article SO MUCH MORE CLEAR, can we begin to grasp the REAL meaning of the article.

Further, the negative jokes about attorneys OBVIOUSLY came from a source which seriously QUESTIONED the role of lawyers, so with tongue firmly in cheek, we will call this source Q, and be ever thankful for the great merits and scholarly insights of the Higher Critical method!

WHAT DRIVEL!!!

We could in fact say that lawyers don't really exist at all. In fact, lawyers are made up by legal assistants to start a new paradigm for mankind.

Under my conspiracy theory, the lawyers were simply edited in to the text to support the claims of these lying legal assistants to make them

look good. When we call a lawyers office whom do we deal with? most likely some lying legal assistant. The idea of 'lawyers' has been in

existence for millenia, yet I find no proof to verify these claims. We need to evaluate what 'lawyer' really means. Lawyer is simply a copy

off of the word liar, which came from the pagans to begin with. eventually it changed into lawyer as a means of justifying their lies, and they

employed legal assistants to do this. Finally we understand the copycat lawyer myth and we can put it all to rest.

[hatsoff]

I'm still in the earliest stages of learning about the documentary hypothesis, but one thing I can tell those of you to whom it is unknown is that it is highly speculative. Of course, that doesn't mean that it is less likely than certain other hypotheses, namely that Moses wrote the book, or even that it is incompatible with Mosaic involvement.

[EricH]

In one story the flood lasts 40 days and 40 nights.

In the other story the flood lasts 300 days.

No, actually it rained for 40 days, but the water remained on the earth for 150 days

[EricH]

In one story Noah sends out a dove, in the other one he sends out a raven.

No, the text says he sent out a dove and also a raven - 2 birds

[EricH]

In one story there are 2 of every animal put on the ark.

In the other story, there are 2 of every unclean animal, and 7 of every clean animal.

No, this is a standard hebrew way of stating law. You state the general rule (there will be at least 2 (1 pair) of evey animal. Then you state the exceptions ( 3 pair plus 1 of clean, one pair of unclean)

There is no contradiction here at all

[Floatingaxe]

In one story Noah sends out a dove, in the other one he sends out a raven.

No, the text says he sent out a dove and also a raven - 2 birds

Where've ya been, EricH? That point was made back on Jan 9!

[Joshua-777]

And the contradictions are as follows.

In one story there are 2 of every animal put on the ark.

In the other story, there are 2 of every unclean animal, and 7 of every clean animal.

In one story Noah sends out a dove, in the other one he sends out a raven.

In one story the flood lasts 40 days and 40 nights.

In the other story the flood lasts 300 days.

Again, if I am wrong, please correct me.

Actually they are all correct statements! Again--no contradiction. There were two of every animal! An additional, more complete instruction was also recorded. Noah sent out both birds, at different times. The rain lasted 40 days and nights, but the flood itself remained about 300 days.

wow, lol ya took my answer, I was going to say somthing simular, but ya already got me covered. Nice post.

[Guest]

I found this very interesting. I got much of this information from a book called "Who Wrote the Bible" by Richard Elliot Friedman.

I put in red letters the story by the author "E" and in regular the author "J"

Read through each version without reading the other one and you will see a complete story by each author. Even some contradictions.

(Translation-KJV)

Genesis 6

5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

16A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

18But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

19And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

20Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

21And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

Genesis 7

1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

4For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

5And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

6And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

7And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

8Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

9There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

12And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

13In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

15And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

16And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

17And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

18And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

24And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Genesis 8

1And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

2The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

3And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

4And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

5And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.

8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;

11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

13And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

14And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

15And God spake unto Noah, saying,

16Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

17Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

18And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

19Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

The number of animals on the ark, the raven/dove contradiction... These are two seperate accounts from two different people combined to make a single story. Its done pretty well, but not perfectly. This is only one instance in Genesis. There are many more throughout the Pentatuech. Try doing this with another story. You might be surprised...

Interesting!!

Can someone shine a kight on this?:

How many animals were aboard the Ark?

How did they(8 people) care for all these animals,there sure must have been thousands?

How did Noah keep all food supplies fresh? Snakes,for ex,will eat only live food.

How did they prevent the large quantities of food from spoilage in the humidity aboard?

The animals must have produced a lot of manure,how did they manage the sanitation bit?

How was the Ark loaded? They had only seven days to load so they must have faced enourmos logistical problems.

If we are to believe that the flood story indicates an omnipotent God,why didn't he kill what he wanted to be killed directly?

And the whole idea was to rid the wicked people from the world.Did it work?

Thank You

[Tubal-Cain]

One very common Rabbinical way of writing is to first give 'the big picture' without much detail, and then to GO BACK, and focus very tightly on the 'important' part of the big story, and write about it with great detail, without bothering much about the big story. Although this methodology would have been very clear to ancient Jewish readers, I find it confuses 20-21st Century Americans.

You can see another example of this sort of thing in Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

Genesis 1-2 is not the same as the flood account though. According to the JEPD theory, Genesis 1:1-2:3 is the P creation account while Genesis 2:4-25 is the J account of creation. We have the J account following the P account. But when it comes to the flood narrative the two sources are interspersed with each other. I re-read the flood text to see if your pattern could be found and I could not find it. I see that both J and P tell the same basic flood story and the text is rather repetitive. Neither is particularly more detailed than the other, nor does one deal with the big picture while the other deals with just an important aspect of that big picture.

If you think your initial reasoning is valid I would like to see a more detailed explanation on how the flood story fits your thinking because I just don't see it.

[Tubal-Cain]

These Bible scholars have spent so much time with their noses in books and philosophies they have forgotten to get to know the God of the Bible they study.

It's like the religious leaders and teachers in Jesus' day. They knew the Law and Prophets forwards and backwards, yet the day God walked among them in human form, they couldn't see Him for who He was.

That's quite debatable seeing as biblical scholars are often Jews and Christians.

I, too, had my faith severely challenged from Bible classes at a Christian college from Liberal theological prophesors. Yet I was involved in a prayer group at the time which was more interesting in meeting with God in prayer and putting faith into practice. In our times together and ministering, we encountered God and saw Him move. I had a choice - do I believe the sholastic confusion brought on me, or do I believe the "God encounters"?

But you never had to make a choice between biblical scholarship and your encounters with God in the first place. If you have never been introduced to biblical criticism it can come as a shock initially but it really is not a threat to Judaism or Christianity. If you were, for example, to accept the JEPD theory I don't think it would diminish your encounters with God at all. I understand that biblical scholarship may not be an interesting topic for everyone but it is not a threat (in fact, it can be quite useful in apologetics).