systemstrike_7 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 And what prophecy tells us that the Jews will be forgotten until the trib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2007 I asked: If he believed in Mithras, why did he point to Jesus? Why did he go to prison claiming Jesus or die for Jesus, when it was illegal to do so? You replied: Maybe he did have some kind of vision. These have been known to happen, in all different kinds of religion, not just Christianity. Would he die for this vision? If he convinced himself of this enough, then yes. And his martyrdom could very well be legendary. Acts is a questionable historical account.... Maybe he did have some kind of vision. These have been known to happen, in all different kinds of religion, not just Christianity. Would he die for this vision? If he convinced himself of this enough, then yes. And his martyrdom could very well be legendary. Acts is a questionable historical account.... So what you're saying is, instead of Paul knowing about Christ from regular human interactions with the people from that time, he had a vision of Christ? I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 He tells us in his epistles that his instruction or information does not come from man, but through a revelation of Jesus Christ. He boasts about it..... His epistles are the earliest Christian writings we have, yet his epistles say nothing of his miracles, birth, walking on water, turning water to wine.(Or water to grapejuice if your baptist), and many many more. It is oh so difficult to get solid evidence that Jesus actually had an earthly ministry, by simply reading Paul's authentic epistles(1 & 2 Timothy and Titus are usually attributed to disciples of Paul in the mid second century). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 25, 2007 And what prophecy tells us that the Jews will be forgotten until the trib? None. The Jews have never been forgotten. The Messiah, Jesus, came for them! They suffer blindness as they always have, and yes, millions will not see God because of it. The plan of salvation has not closed to them, but was opened for us heathen Gentiles, praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted January 25, 2007 And what prophecy tells us that the Jews will be forgotten until the trib? So what does this say about the Jewish folk that don't live to see the Trib? Do they go to hell? Why? Why would God abandon his chosen people? I just don't understand this. I can't imagine that Jesus preached what he preached to forsake his own people. On I never said that the Jews would be forgotten, I said they will be in the great tribulation, Look up Danial 12, and rev 19 for references on this. Jesus was God in the flesh, Offering salvation to everyone, The Jews where Gods Chosen people, yet they denie Christ, and though they saw miricals, they still denied, Jesus was opened to them, and many Jews accepted Jesus in their heart, Jesus is the promised massiah they are still waiting for, Jesus didn't forsake his own people, he provided a way for their salvation, but also the way for gentiles, "us" so in one name, the O.T. Was filled, now Paul was a pharasee, and the aposltles where Jewish, God gave them the command to preach to the gentiles, and God's word spread through the nation, The JEws are still Gods holy people, yes, But Jesus is the Only way. pertaining to pauls Christianity, He spread the news of Christ, Is it not paul who wrote, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me? who also wrote to live, is Christ, to die is gain? in Phillipians? everything paul ever wrote pertains to Jesus, and reveals deeper mysterys in Christ, He had a personal relationship with Christ. Don't let satan confuse you. John was believed to be the deciple closest to Jesus, If you want to discredit the bible, You will only find a stumbling block, and slip further away in a relationship with Christ, the Jews have salvation in the same name we have salvation, and they have a chance to accept him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted January 25, 2007 He tells us in his epistles that his instruction or information does not come from man, but through a revelation of Jesus Christ. He boasts about it..... His epistles are the earliest Christian writings we have, yet his epistles say nothing of his miracles, birth, walking on water, turning water to wine.(Or water to grapejuice if your baptist), and many many more. It is oh so difficult to get solid evidence that Jesus actually had an earthly ministry, by simply reading Paul's authentic epistles(1 & 2 Timothy and Titus are usually attributed to disciples of Paul in the mid second century). TO understand the epistles, Look into who they are written to, letters to Churchs, to keep honorable to God, He wasn't there to witness Jesus walking on water, yet he does mentiont he Lords Healing power, and was used to heal many, He was against Jesus in the begining until he personally saw Jesus, and nothing he says was wrong, or against what Jesus Taught, Jesus used him in a powerful way, his message was of the peace in a life with Christ, and moral structure for a Church, he tought about the tribulation in thess, and He interlocks very key aspects of what Jesus preached about. He preaches about the trinity and being adopted and having a personal relationship with god, also things concidering the Law, and how Christ fulfilled all the prophecies. He does teach about the last supper, thus being the reason why he wrote in 1st corinth about communion. Now, one thing important to remember about Paul, half of what he wrote pertained to the Jews, and half of what he wrote pertained to the gentiles, witnessing from other aspects, also His epistles, where set to strengthen the Church, everything he preached about was not documented, and he preached more than he wrote. He lead the first missionary trips, spreading the word of the Gospel in so many places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemstrike_7 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1987 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 And what prophecy tells us that the Jews will be forgotten until the trib? So what does this say about the Jewish folk that don't live to see the Trib? Do they go to hell? Why? Why would God abandon his chosen people? I just don't understand this. I can't imagine that Jesus preached what he preached to forsake his own people. On I never said that the Jews would be forgotten, I said they will be in the great tribulation, Look up Danial 12, and rev 19 for references on this. Jesus was God in the flesh, Offering salvation to everyone, The Jews where Gods Chosen people, yet they denie Christ, and though they saw miricals, they still denied, Jesus was opened to them, and many Jews accepted Jesus in their heart, Jesus is the promised massiah they are still waiting for, Jesus didn't forsake his own people, he provided a way for their salvation, but also the way for gentiles, "us" so in one name, the O.T. Was filled, now Paul was a pharasee, and the aposltles where Jewish, God gave them the command to preach to the gentiles, and God's word spread through the nation, The JEws are still Gods holy people, yes, But Jesus is the Only way. pertaining to pauls Christianity, He spread the news of Christ, Is it not paul who wrote, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me? who also wrote to live, is Christ, to die is gain? in Phillipians? everything paul ever wrote pertains to Jesus, and reveals deeper mysterys in Christ, He had a personal relationship with Christ. Don't let satan confuse you. John was believed to be the deciple closest to Jesus, If you want to discredit the bible, You will only find a stumbling block, and slip further away in a relationship with Christ, the Jews have salvation in the same name we have salvation, and they have a chance to accept him. The Jews had no reason to believe Jesus was their promised Messiah. There Messiah was going to be an earthly king and was going to overthrow the Roman rule, at least that was what they were expecting. Jesus was not the first (or last) "miracle worker" to proclaim he was the promised messiah. They had become use to that sort of thing. If Jesus would have actually said, "I am God", they would have flipped. Well, according to the gospel account of John, he did. And they rightfully crucified him. Just as God told them to do. God said that He was the one and only God. They believed him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted January 25, 2007 And what prophecy tells us that the Jews will be forgotten until the trib? So what does this say about the Jewish folk that don't live to see the Trib? Do they go to hell? Why? Why would God abandon his chosen people? I just don't understand this. I can't imagine that Jesus preached what he preached to forsake his own people. On I never said that the Jews would be forgotten, I said they will be in the great tribulation, Look up Danial 12, and rev 19 for references on this. Jesus was God in the flesh, Offering salvation to everyone, The Jews where Gods Chosen people, yet they denie Christ, and though they saw miricals, they still denied, Jesus was opened to them, and many Jews accepted Jesus in their heart, Jesus is the promised massiah they are still waiting for, Jesus didn't forsake his own people, he provided a way for their salvation, but also the way for gentiles, "us" so in one name, the O.T. Was filled, now Paul was a pharasee, and the aposltles where Jewish, God gave them the command to preach to the gentiles, and God's word spread through the nation, The JEws are still Gods holy people, yes, But Jesus is the Only way. pertaining to pauls Christianity, He spread the news of Christ, Is it not paul who wrote, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me? who also wrote to live, is Christ, to die is gain? in Phillipians? everything paul ever wrote pertains to Jesus, and reveals deeper mysterys in Christ, He had a personal relationship with Christ. Don't let satan confuse you. John was believed to be the deciple closest to Jesus, If you want to discredit the bible, You will only find a stumbling block, and slip further away in a relationship with Christ, the Jews have salvation in the same name we have salvation, and they have a chance to accept him. The Jews had no reason to believe Jesus was their promised Messiah. There Messiah was going to be an earthly king and was going to overthrow the Roman rule, at least that was what they were expecting. Jesus was not the first (or last) "miracle worker" to proclaim he was the promised messiah. They had become use to that sort of thing. If Jesus would have actually said, "I am God", they would have flipped. Well, according to the gospel account of John, he did. And they rightfully crucified him. Just as God told them to do. God said that He was the one and only God. They believed him.... Jesus did preform many signs, that no prophet has done, and no one could do, He showed signs, many did not believe, but many upon many did believe, the pharisees where more authority where scared to lose their place, and had no relationship with God, and the ones that did, Knew Jesus was the messiah, and Jesus is God in the flesh, and He did say he was God, what Jesus did was what every prophecy said he would do, and all the signs where there. This is a decription of what they should have been expecting, written 700 years before Christ came Isaiah 53 1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. 3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. 9 And they made His grave with the wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 25, 2007 The Jews had no reason to believe Jesus was their promised Messiah. There Messiah was going to be an earthly king and was going to overthrow the Roman rule, at least that was what they were expecting. Jesus was not the first (or last) "miracle worker" to proclaim he was the promised messiah. They had become use to that sort of thing. If Jesus would have actually said, "I am God", they would have flipped. Well, according to the gospel account of John, he did. And they rightfully crucified him. Just as God told them to do. God said that He was the one and only God. They believed him.... God told them to crucify Christ? Come on, man! Well, the Jews made a BIG mistake, didn't they? Listening to their Pharisaical teachers and the traditional Talmud, why wouldn't they? They had become blind...but not all of them. Thousands and thousands had taken Jesus for who He was at that time. They had their eyes open, because they themselves WERE open to the Truth. Jesus had such compassion upon the people and demonstrated it wherever He went, healing not some, but ALL who were presented to Him. They could certainly see that He was who He claimed to be. The zealots and the leaders were just blinded by Satan. Jesus was as plain as day to the world then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted January 25, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted January 25, 2007 The Jews had no reason to believe Jesus was their promised Messiah. There Messiah was going to be an earthly king and was going to overthrow the Roman rule, at least that was what they were expecting. Jesus was not the first (or last) "miracle worker" to proclaim he was the promised messiah. They had become use to that sort of thing. If Jesus would have actually said, "I am God", they would have flipped. Well, according to the gospel account of John, he did. And they rightfully crucified him. Just as God told them to do. God said that He was the one and only God. They believed him.... God told them to crucify Christ? Come on, man! Well, the Jews made a BIG mistake, didn't they? Listening to their Pharisaical teachers and the traditional Talmud, why wouldn't they? They had become blind...but not all of them. Thousands and thousands had taken Jesus for who He was at that time. They had their eyes open, because they themselves WERE open to the Truth. Jesus had such compassion upon the people and demonstrated it wherever He went, healing not some, but ALL who were presented to Him. They could certainly see that He was who He claimed to be. The zealots and the leaders were just blinded by Satan. Jesus was as plain as day to the world then. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts