reconditioned Posted January 17, 2007 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 138 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2007 Jesus said that God gave him the peoples that were his so I think that Jesus is the head of the church. Can someone post the scripture that says that? It says so quite clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted January 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2007 Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I also posted another one that says it back on page two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted January 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Jesus said that God gave him the peoples that were his so I think that Jesus is the head of the church. Can someone post the scripture that says that? It says so quite clearly. Didn't you come across this in post #6? John17: 6-10... I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. However, all that Jesus was given is also God's as He says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted January 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted January 17, 2007 I think that anti-Trinitarian groups like to use verses that seemingly conflict with the doctrine of the Trinity as evidence for their case. But for the large part (At least in my experience) they tend to ignore the relevance of God's having exalted the humanity of the Lord Jesus; and they have also ignored the fact that it is because of Jesus' humanity that He is head over all things to the church. Who is the head? It's Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconditioned Posted January 18, 2007 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 138 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2007 Jesus said that God gave him the peoples that were his so I think that Jesus is the head of the church. Can someone post the scripture that says that? It says so quite clearly. Didn't you come across this in post #6? John17: 6-10... I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. However, all that Jesus was given is also God's as He says. I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 I think that anti-Trinitarian groups like to use verses that seemingly conflict with the doctrine of the Trinity as evidence for their case. But for the large part (At least in my experience) they tend to ignore the relevance of God's having exalted the humanity of the Lord Jesus; and they have also ignored the fact that it is because of Jesus' humanity that He is head over all things to the church. Who is the head? It's Jesus! I'll have to respond to this later since I don't want to jump ahead of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 18, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 How or in what way is Christ the head of the church? What does the phrase 'Christ is the head of the church' mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted January 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Perhaps a related word study would be of help to begin with. Example: NT writers used arche to say 'ruler' or 'leader' and a related word is archon translated: 'chief', 'ruler', 'prince' etc. 1. Strong's #607 apokephalizo 'to decapitate:behead' Mark 6:16 HCSB: When Herod heard of it, he said, "John, the one I beheaded, has been raised!" The Message: 16But Herod wouldn't budge: "It's John, sure enough. I cut off his head, and now he's back, alive." CEV: 16But when Herod heard about Jesus, he said, "This must be John! I had his head cut off, and now he has come back to life." 2. Strong's #346 anakephalaiomai 'to sum up:--briefly comprehend, gather together in one' Ephesians 1:9-10 NASB: 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him RSV: 9For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. KJV: 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: ESV: 9making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. CEV: 9and by what Christ has done, God has shown us his own mysterious ways. 10Then when the time is right, God will do all that he has planned, and Christ will bring together everything in heaven and on earth. Romans 13:9 CEV: 9In the Law there are many commands, such as, "Be faithful in marriage. Do not murder. Do not steal. Do not want what belongs to others." But all of these are summed up in the command that says, "Love others as much as you love yourself." 3. Strong's #2774 kephalaion 'neuter of a derivative of 2776; a principal thing, i.e. main point; specially, an amount (of money):--sum.' Acts 22:28 YLT: 28and the chief captain answered, `I, with a great sum, did obtain this citizenship;' but Paul said, `But I have been even born [so].' ESV: 28The tribune answered, "I bought this citizenship for a large sum." Paul said, "But I am a citizen by birth." Hebrews 8:1 YLT: 1And the sum concerning the things spoken of [is]: we have such a chief priest, who did sit down at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens, KJV: 1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 4. Strong's #2776 kephale 'the head (as the part most readily taken hold of), literally or figuratively:--head.' Colossians 1:17-18 YLT: 17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted. 18And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] -- himself -- first, CEV: 17God's Son was before all else, and by him everything is held together. 18He is the head of his body, which is the church. He is the very beginning, the first to be raised from death, so that he would be above all others. Ephesians 1:22-23 AB:22And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme Head of the church [a headship exercised throughout the church], 23Which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all [for in that body lives the full measure of Him Who makes everything complete, and Who fills everything everywhere with Himself]. WycliffeNT:22 and made all things subject under his feet, and gave him to be head over all the church, 23 that is the body of him, and the plenty of him, which is all things in all things fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted January 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2007 I knew this thread would eventually get around to good ole "kephale" oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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