munari Posted July 30, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 444 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/08/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 30, 2002 We know from the Bible that people in hell cannot cross over and since the Bible is just as clear that people in Abraham's bosom could not cross over, what makes anyone think that people in heaven can cross over Cross over from where to where? Could you please clarify and give the scriptural reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xan Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 I'm sure you know the story Yeshua (Jesus) told about Lazerus and the rich man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leejosepho Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Two Lamps: Whether in the context of communicating with the dead or with familiar or any other spirits, or in any other context at all, I am admittedly-opportunistically curious about your statement that you "reserve the right to be wrong." I do not argue against the existence of such a right, and I would defend anyone's at-times-dangerous right to exercise it. Â However, my own experience with that right has taught me that my former insistence upon making use of it came from something deadly inside me -- primarily: ego and defiance. Any comment(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted July 31, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2002 I wouldn't. (this is referred to as having a familiar spirit and according to the Lord it is sinful to do) Lev. 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. 1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 1Ch 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; 2Ch 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. Isa 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. Isa 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. In His Truth, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leejosepho Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Suzanne: If I am hearing you correctly, we agree absolutely as to the issue of spirits. My question to Two Lamps was related to the exercise of one's free will, and I only meant to say I would defend anyone's granted-at-creation "right" to exercise his or her free will -- as in free speech, the right to assemble, and so on. Of course, there are times when exercising one's right to free will can bring horrendous results -- such as on 9-11 -- and one might wonder why we were given free will in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GloryaRose Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Perhaps some people can sense spirits of the dead. I think that the Lord gifts some people with spiritual sensitivity. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â B U T... To seek guidance from the spirits of the dead or from any other spirit or source except for the Spirit of God is SIN.... and God condemns these things in His Word. When my paternal grandfather died he had been ill for a long time. He was not saved. I went to see him on his death bed but he did not permit me to speak to him about the LORD. He threw a chaplain out of his hospital room. For the knowledge I had... he most likely was not saved when he passed away...unless perhaps there was an unseen moment when he called upon the name of the LORD. After I visited Him, I returned home. A week later he died. I sensed him...or his spirit holding on to this realm...I cant explain it other than that I felt him...his spirit near me...as if he was holding on to this place... I was not the only family member who sensed this either. I was the only saved family member who experienced this. This happened just one hour before I recieved word that he had passed. I have often wondered why...and thought that maybe he was trying to tell me something before he left...but I have never sought out a medium, or a psychic to interpret the meaning of this because I do not believe the Lord wants me to accept any other spiritual knowledge.....but HIS. God has given me peace in the fact that I will wait until I see eternity to know for sure where my grandfather is in his eternity. I trust the Lord will give the knowledge that I need to guide my life...and to base my eternity on. When I was bout 12 years old my maternal grandmother passed away. I actually heard reassurring words in her voice... "Don't worry, I am fine, I am with Jesus in Heaven". The same thing was also heard by my aunt in Arkansas...and we did not discover the concurrance of these experiences until several years later. What is interesting is that I myself was not saved until I was 16. Yet the words I heard brought comfort to me. I did not enter into conversation with the voice that spoke those words. I just quietly accepted them. I did not try to talk to my deceased grandmother after that experience and never heard her again. Love In Christ, GloryaRose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Lamps Posted August 1, 2002 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1973 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Leejosepho, you completely misunderstand me. When I say that I reserve the right to be wrong, that means that I am admitting first of all that I may be wrong because I don't in fact know everything as none of us do; secondly, that I do not wish to be presumed to be so self-righteous as to not recognize the possibility of being wrong. Â "I reserve the right to be wrong" is a disclaimer that I use when I fear reprisal for stating a mere opinion as has indeed happened here in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Lamps Posted August 1, 2002 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1973 Share Posted August 1, 2002 GloryaRose, that is exactly what I am talking about.... when they come to you. Â Thank you for illustrating my point. Â I believe the name of the gift you are speaking of is the gift of discernment. Â Paul, who warned us against dabbling in the occult and divination, speaks about the various gifts of the spirit. Â I am in agreement with you on the not entering into conversation with spirits, but they are there, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leejosepho Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Two Lamps: Thanks for the report of what you had meant by what you had said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leejosepho Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 Adding a late thought here ... I believe Xan has already essentially made the point that we are not to even try, at least not for the purpose of trying to get any kind of information from them. So then, CAN we "communicate" with spirits, and if so, what should we be saying to them ... maybe, "Get behind me"? In my daughter's case, that spirit evidently already knew its place, for that is precisely where it was, and where it stayed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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