ELECTION or FREE WILL

[Guest Biblicist]

You forgot one, all of the above. . .

I did not forget!

LT

Then you do not believe that those things can happen simultaneously?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Gerioke]

Personally, I don't care which happened first. I'm just happy to be included in the kingdom of God

[Guest Biblicist]

Personally, I don't care which happened first. I'm just happy to be included in the kingdom of God

AMEN!

[tdrehfal]

This kind of thing for me falls under the 'wind of doctrine' that people aren't supposed to 'blown about' by...

[nanasimmons]

[

Hi again Larry, I have to agree with your last two statemenrs here, and the only reason we are born in sin is because of the fall of the first man, adam........ so we have to ask ourselves....Did God definitely know that adam would fall?.... I for one don't think he did know. Some say He did know, because of His omniscience, which freely defined, means *all knowing*, but not necessarily *in advance*. tho I don't doubt His ability to be able to.

I have no doubt, somehow, that it was after the fall, that God put His contingency plan into action, by sending His Son to lead us back into relationship and reconciliation with Him. You see, to me at anyrate, if God had created adam with a free will, it wouldn't have bothered God which tree adam ate from. However it must have mattered, because God warned adam and told him he was to do HIS will and leave the tree alone. He didn't give adam a free rein, but He did give adam a brain so that he was able to make the right choice, the same as we have today.

A bit raggle taggle, Larry, bro, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.

Jesus is called 'the Lamb that was slain BEFORE the foundation of the world'.....I read this to say God did know that Adam would fall........I have a difficult time believing that God was not aware of His own creation from beginning to end...

Thats just my observation....

Nana

[Floatingaxe]

From FA,

Sounds to me like the act of free will gets one eternal life.

--------------------

Sounnds to me like the act of free will can likewise get one eternal damnation as well........don'tcha reckon.?

Yep!

[kjn]

Hi there Truster. I have copied and pasted a commentry that I found in crosswalk that referring to the chapter of Ephesians, you mentioned in one of your posts. It's worth considering it contains the clause* from the foundations of the earth*

I would like to know your opinion on it.

3-6. Blessed be the God. The word rendered "blessed" is one from which our word eulogize is derived. It means, therefore, primarily, to praise. "Praised be the God," etc., gives the idea. Who hath blessed us. The blessed is here from the same root. The word means, as above, "to praise," or to "speak" good things of one; then to "speak" good things to, or bestow blessings, as a secondary meaning. This is the meaning here. With all spiritual blessings. All came from God, and he has withheld none from those in Christ. In the heavenly. In the kingdom of heaven. 4. According as. "Even as," in Revision. Chosen us in him before the foundation of the world. This does not affirm that God chose some individuals and rejected others, but that before the world was, before there was Jew or Gentile, God chose to have a people for himself, the whole church of Christ, a covenant people confined to no one earthly race. Holy and without blame. God chose them that they might be holy. Holiness is the proof that a church is a chosen church. 5. Having predestinated us. Foreordained that we, the church of Jesus Christ, should be adopted as his children. The whole line of argument is general instead of particular. God foreordained a church which should be composed of those adopted as his children. According to the pleasure of his will. The act of predestination was due simply to God's sovereign will. His will was the cause. 6. To the praise of the glory of his grace. To the end that his grace in adopting us as children may redound to his praise and glory. In the beloved. In Christ. See Matt.

I can give you the url if you wish, but I will have to go back and find it again.

cheers.

Do you know what the basis is for this statement? "The whole line of argument is general instead of particular. "

[kjn]

Been away for a while and have been studying the doctrine of election. This seems to have been one of the more important doctrines of the past but is not taught in the church to the extent it was previously. Just curious as to what some of you think. Let's try to keep our discussions civil.

Thank you.

LT

God elected every person He created to be saved. However, by the creatures free will, many choose not to accept this election.

What scripture supports this?

[Floatingaxe]

James 4:4

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Proverbs 1:29

Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD...

[Zceiv]

James 4:4

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Proverbs 1:29

Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD...

yes and they choose because of there corrupt will