7thseal Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2007 This assumes that our connection with the Holy Spirit is perfect, and it's not. We are fallible humans and therefore will sometimes reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do, or we won't fully understand. That is part of sanctification, growth. What keeps that connection with with the Holy Spirit from being perfect? When we choose to "reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2007 This assumes that our connection with the Holy Spirit is perfect, and it's not. We are fallible humans and therefore will sometimes reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do, or we won't fully understand. That is part of sanctification, growth. What keeps that connection with with the Holy Spirit from being perfect? When we choose to "reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do". Us. We do. We're fallible, and we have to live with that until the day we die. It is part of the curse of sin. That isn't to say the Holy Spirit won't discipline us, or force us back (I heartedly believe He will)...however, it is a constant struggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) This assumes that our connection with the Holy Spirit is perfect, and it's not. We are fallible humans and therefore will sometimes reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do, or we won't fully understand. That is part of sanctification, growth. What keeps that connection with with the Holy Spirit from being perfect? When we choose to "reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do". Us. We do. We're fallible, and we have to live with that until the day we die. It is part of the curse of sin. That isn't to say the Holy Spirit won't discipline us, or force us back (I heartedly believe He will)...however, it is a constant struggle You bet its a constant struggle and thats what Satan wants and why he makes sin look so appealing, in my walk with Christ whenever I clearly hear the Holy Spirit speaking to me either through prayer or through another person. I often want to reject what he's telling me. Why? Because he's always leading me to step out in faith. And if we do this we have to give up more of 'self' and rely more on God. But shouldn't our faith always be increasing? Edited February 17, 2007 by 7thseal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 shiloh I agree but look at the basic cause of these problems that you've listed.....relying on self. Actually, my point was not about relying on self, but upon being preoccupied with "self," particularly with relationship to how one perceives how others measure up to one's own standard of what constitutes "sin." As I stated, depending on your theological bent, you may have a significantly different list of what is or is not "sinful." I don't think anyone here is challenging the notion that we should strive to live holy lives, and to abstain from immorality. If someone is cultivating their relationship with Jesus, and staying in prayer and communion with the Holy Spirit, the Christian life is simply an outgrowth of an inner, daily transformation, from glory to glory. Everyday is a fresh slate, a new opportunity. To use a less than perfect analogy (for lack of better one at the present moment), when I was first learning how to drive, my instructor told me that it was important to keep the nose of the car in the center of the lane I was in. Well, my attention went immediately to the nose of the vehicle, and I was trying to make sure it stayed in the center. My instructor quickly instructed me to keep my eyes on the vehicle in front of me and the vehicles around me, because even though keeping the vehicle in the center was important, I also needed to be aware of the larger situation around me on the road. He told me that keeping the vehicle properly centered would come naturally and quickly. By focusing on only the nose of the vehicle, it would be obvious that I might not see the vehicle in front me apply their brakes and a disaster would have occurred. We can be so caught up in "not sinning" that we miss the larger aspect of living as a Christian, and other vital parts of our walk can suffer, particularly in the area of how we relate to other Christians. When we truly in fellowship with Jesus, and allowing his life to be lived through us in the person of the Holy Spirit, holiness will be an almost unconscious outgrowth of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily~Anne Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 146 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,308 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2007 shiloh I agree but look at the basic cause of these problems that you've listed.....relying on self. Actually, my point was not about relying on self, but upon being preoccupied with "self," particularly with relationship to how one perceives how others measure up to one's own standard of what constitutes "sin.".... When we truly in fellowship with Jesus, and allowing his life to be lived through us in the person of the Holy Spirit, holiness will be an almost unconscious outgrowth of that. The important thing is not to rely on self to figure out what is right and what is wrong. If I were to do this, I would have never looked into what is so wrong with homosexuality and many other things that are an abomination to God. Because of our inherent sinful natures, we must look to God for guidance, not ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnForChrist Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 81 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1990 Share Posted February 17, 2007 The only place I would disagree with you there, and I think the only place we are really disagreeing is that I don't that man is capable of not sinning, nor do I think that scripture supports such a notion. No man who belongs to the father continues deliberately sinning, if he does he is being led astray. And we are still sinful because of our flesh, until we receive our resurrection bodies (Philippians 3:21). And one who claims to be without sin is deceiving himself, and the truth is not in him (1 John 1:8) I think are to strive to be free from all sin. However, we are fallen just the same and incapable of being free from sin in our every thought and deed for the rest of our lives. It is my understanding that yours is Pentecostal view, that one can "be perfect". Correct me if I am wrong though. Elaborate this "view" please if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2007 [ We can be so caught up in "not sinning" that we miss the larger aspect of living as a Christian, and other vital parts of our walk can suffer, particularly in the area of how we relate to other Christians. Amen, I agree with what your saying. But what I can't grip is that as long as we are following what the Holy Spirit leads us to do, whether sin being revealed and repentance is needed, sharing the gospel or whatever, as long as we follow him then how can we be caught up with "not sinning"? Repent means to turn away from and once that sin has been revealed and we repent. Then we know very well what we're doing when Satan returns offering us that sin. Once we begin to reject the temptation he simple offers another sin and he always starts with whatever areas we are the weakest at. Once we've allowed the Holy Spirit to give us the strength to resist those temptations. Then he will move to another sin. I'm not saying that we become sinless and Holy all at once, this is a continual process but man if we would simply follow the Holy Spirit directions and not reject him then I can only imagine the blessings that would be poured out. And I can only imagine what I'm missing when I give into temptation. Less of me, more of you Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 But what I can't grip is that as long as we are following what the Holy Spirit leads us to do, whether sin being revealed and repentance is needed, sharing the gospel or whatever, as long as we follow him then how can we be caught up with "not sinning"? I should probably clarify that I am coming from the position of having to deal with judgmental people who were caught up in not sinning. Most people I have come into contact who preached that after getting saved, we should not ever sin again, tend to call others' salvation into question if they still stumble into sin. I guess that more than anything else, is my concern. If someone claims to be sinless, that is between them and God, and He will deal with it. That doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is when people start putting their standards onto fellow Christians and argue that unless you are living sinless, you are not a true follower of Christ. I have seen a lot of condemnation from those who are consumed in their "sinlessness." They fail to see that they are the antithesis of what they want or claim to be. I am not saying you are that way, or anything. I am just very guarded against condemnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted February 17, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) Don't get me wrong I'm not claiming that I'm walking without sin, only God has the position to determine this but when we ask the Holy Spirit to reveal any sin and he doesn't respond with any, then at least we know that we are following him for a short time and not the flesh. I do believe that we can overcome sin if we follow the Holy Spirit and ask him to guide us through everything we face. When we start doing this then our relationship with God can only increase and that gives me lots of joy! Edited February 17, 2007 by 7thseal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Don't get me wrong I'm not claiming that I'm walking without sin, only God has the position to determine this but when we ask the Holy Spirit to reveal any sin and he doesn't respond with any, then at least we know that we are following him for a short time and not the flesh. I do believe that we can overcome sin if we follow the Holy Spirit and ask him to guide us through everything we face. When we start doing this then our relationship with God can only increase and that gives me lots of joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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