Tithe,

[jbbaab44]

if giving 10% of our possessions and increase is the start place what's the end place?

100%.

It is impossible to give 100% of your increase and possessions. If you gave 100% you would not eat and you would wear no clothes. Am i right?

Tithing was not reiterated in the new covenant. Other than that i've always eluded as well that we should submit ourselves in every area to God including money.

Actually, if you'll look at some of the Scriptures I posted previously, tithing is addressed in the New Testament and Jesus tells the Pharisees they should do that PLUS care about the spiritual things.

Tithing is not not reiterated under the new COVENANT I'm not talking about new testament. God gave his children a new covenant. Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John are in the new testament but are still under the Old Covenant.

[Vickilynn]

It is impossible to give 100% of your increase and possessions. If you gave 100% you would not eat and you would wear no clothes. Am i right?

Shalom Jb,

No, I don't believe you are correct.

You are continually mixing the spiritual and physical and muddying the lines between them.

You say the tithe teaches us spiritual lessons and then you deny those spiritual lessons in favor of flawed human understanding and limitations.

You asked when the ending place would be if 10% was the starting place.

You ignored the spiritual relevance here.

We owe everything to G-d. It is ALL His.

We can never outgive G-d.

We are not owed anything. All that we have is by His grace.

As for eating and wearing clothes, Jesus has this to say about that:

Matthew 6

25"For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

26")Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

27"And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?

28"And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin,

29yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these.

30"But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!

31"Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'

32"For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

33"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

34"So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Tithing was not reiterated in the new covenant. Other than that i've always eluded as well that we should submit ourselves in every area to God including money.

Actually, if you'll look at some of the Scriptures I posted previously, tithing is addressed in the New Testament and Jesus tells the Pharisees they should do that PLUS care about the spiritual things.

Tithing is not not reiterated under the new COVENANT I'm not talking about new testament. God gave his children a new covenant. Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John are in the new testament but are still under the Old Covenant. Edited March 14, 2007 by Vickilynn

[gypc]

I don't believe tithing is done away with........but I do believe the curse from not tithing is gone and I believe the burden of tithe is gone. If a person wants to tithe by faith, being led by the Spirit, I think that is an awesome thing in the sight of the Lord.........but this thread was started by a sister who was confused about her giving and didn't want to get in trouble with God. IMO she should just be led by the Spirit.

[LossForWords]

Anywho...

Our pastor is not one of your "typical" pastors (if the pastors that are obsessed with wordly posessions and money are "typical") that preaches ALOT about tithing and his opinions on it...because he would no doubt get the same comments that are being passed around on this topic. He would hear the "oh, you just want our money so you can live in a nicer house." or the old "why does the church need a new building when there is a child starving in Africa?"

When we give tithes and offerings to the church, our money goes a LOOOOONG way. In the Nazarene church, a church can not provide MORE for it's pastor or more for it's congregation unless other funds have been met.

Those funds include World Evangelsim and Ministries (our money goes to other countries to help with the starving children, and the people who need repairs to their homes, and countries that want a cement block building to hold worship services in). Our money also helps pay for the missionaries who are doing God's work in other countries. I do not have a problem with my money being used for these purposes. I would rather give to my church, knowing that my money is going to World Evagelism than keeping it and thinking I'm going to do something with it one day to help an orphan. Of course, we also have our alabaster Sunday's in which we throw our change in a big ol' wooden church bank. This money also goes to help the needy, especially with building churches and providing meals and other necessities from the church building that was built by missionaries with supplies that were provided by alabaster and tithes and offerings. I keep my little cardboard brick bank and drop change in it every now and then, and think, "good, I at least know I am doing something more for people who not only need food, and clothes, and shelter, but mercy from God as well."

So, even though people refer to "tithe" as being "old and out dated," I have no problem with it because I know where my money is going and how it is being used. And because "tithe" is a biblical term, I continue to use it with a cheerful heart. (Because when the New Testament came about, we were no longer REQUIRED to give...shuffling our feet all the way to the church door with a check that was written in haste...nope, we are supposed to give joyfully...THANK YOU GOD for giving to me...now with my whole heart I want to give a little piece back to you, because that's all that you ask...AMAZING!)

Our church must also be able to pay it's mortgage, it's utilities, etc...if a church is not using it's money wisely and is spending it extravegantly, while the important funds are not being met...the international church has the option of closing the chuch or providing the church with a new staff that will not "waste" money.

After all is said and done, we must pay the pastor, youth pastor, children's minster, janitor, etc...for their job. Because whether we like it or not, being a pastor is a job. Yes, he was called to be a pastor, but he also needs to make a living. Our pastor and youth pastor and children's pastor do not make "good" money. They are doing their job by faith and whatever the church provides is what they have to live on. We do take up love offerings for the pastor (usually on pastor appreciation day or Christmas). Sometimes it's a love offering and we just give them a check to use it as they see fit. Sometimes we have a food drive in which we give the youth pastor food to fill the cabinets (and a box of Lucky Charms cereal for the kids, or a box of Fruit Roll Ups...because alot of times there is just not enough money for the frivilous things that kids enjoy...I am a PK so I know how tight money can get...the food drives were awesome because we finally got to have those cool popsicles in the freezer!)

Some people watch crazy pastor's on television or read about things in the news...but the majority of pastors are not paid nearly what they are worth. I know I would never want to be a pastor (thank goodness I was never called into a full time ministry position...though I do hold several positions within the church). I would not like the 3am wake up call because some old lady who is somehow related to so and so from the church is in the hospital and wants you to pray with her. Or get a call while you are on your one week vacation to come back home because Brother Henry who was 100 years old has passed away and they want you to do the funeral. Or counseling people who are living TOUGH lives. Pastors are on call 24/7...could you imagine what somebody's salary would be if they worked constantly, long hours, and were on call 24/7...that's doc. material right there, and let me be the first to say, I know pastors are not making as much as the surgeon at the city hospital.

Our church has voted to build a new church building. We have seen growth over the past 20 years, and our church body continues to grow. The church that was built 65 years ago just isn't enough space anymore. So we are going to build a church that will hold approx. *gasp* 400 people. Now...we have not hit this mark yet. We run about 250 each Sunday morning. But with the continued growth we want to build with the belief that we will run full capacity one day, because we know we can continue to reach out to the community. We have a building fund because it makes it easier for the church to run smoothly, without any picking and choosing. With a building fund we can make a sizable down payment (if not pay for the whole building)...and when we take out a new mortgage it would not have to be as big (ensuring that members down the road do not have to bear any sort of burden).

Keeping a church going takes faith from the congregation. Some people only give offering (but if you are paying everything else...going out to eat, buying new clothes, putting gas in the car, buying groceries, taking the kids to the baby sitter, giving to your local charity...and then giving whatever might be left over to God...that's not going to cut it). I'm not going to argue with somebody over whether or not they believe they should tithe. It's my own personal belief. But I also know it's not only my personal belief but a belief that others hold true as well. And I can guarantee that the people that tithe from the top of their paychecks, giving 10% back with cheerful hearts are the ones who are not going to have anything to complain about.

You won't hear them complain about money in any way (not that they don't ever have enough...or that they think the church has too much). I give from the heart, I give 10% (my tithe that I automatically give back to God...seeing as how he blessed me with life, and with a job, and with a home, and with a car, and a husband, and some pets, and the groceries, and the gas that I have to use to keep the car going...) and then I give offerings (to thank God for the blessings that continue to flow and to also put faith into the church that I love).

If I could go back and rephrase my question, I would be sure to only address the believers that actually do set aside faithfully what belongs to God...because only they could answer the question that I had. Which...as I look back...a handful did. Thanks so much. I will continue to tithe, and then set aside my offerings to put towards the building fund.

Edited March 14, 2007 by LossForWords

[gypc]

If I could go back and rephrase my question, I would be sure to only address the believers that actually do set aside faithfully what belongs to God...because only they could answer the question that I had. Which...as I look back...a handful did. Thanks so much. I will continue to tithe, and then set aside my offerings to put towards the building fund.

This statement brings division.

I don't believe that we are under a tithe curse but I do believe in setting aside what belongs to God. Notice my comments in this thread................be led by the Spirit!

[Eliyahuw]

Shalom,

It's so saddening to me to see professed Christians refuse the ENTIRE Bible as the Word of G-d. There is nothing in the Bible that does not apply to us today. Just because something is written before the book of Matthew in the cannon does not mean it is not applicable to us to live before the L-rd!

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

As for tithing, it is not "under the law" if you're talking about the Law of Moses.

Tithing was in existence BEFORE the Law of Moses.

If you read those verses, tithing was Volentary, from the heart, in effect it wasn't tithing it was offerings. Tithing became law later, then returned to offerings from the heart upon the NT covenant.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes I was filled with the Spirit. I have been Spirit-filled for many years. But I was holding out on God, because I had money problems and didn't trust God to pull me through in faith. Finally I cast it all on Him, and began to trust Him for everything and obeyed Him in tithing. Now things have become dramatically changed. No debt whatsoever, and a new job where I hadn't worked in years, and other pretty gigantic personal blessings that do not have anything to do with finances.

I understand that your giving is spirit filled now, but how could you say that you were spirit filled in the past, but were not trusting God? That doesn't make sense.

By the way, I don't doubt your blessings and neither should you about mine.

I have been filled with the Spirit for several years, but s a lot of believers, had a problem with trusting that God would take care of my needs if I didn't...with respect to finances. We were like a lot of Christians, living on credit. To us, tithing was part of the law, and we were content with living under God's mercy. We have since learned that to live by faith is the answer, for then we don't need to live by God's mercy, but have His blessing and victory.

You can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not yet be perfect, eh?

So many believers aren't tithing because they do not trust God!

[Giaour]

Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary).

The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel.

Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation.

All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified.

New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government--a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel.

The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."

http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/IA-tithe.htm

[Floatingaxe]

We can be filled with the Holy Spirit and still need to grow in some areas. We are not perfect when we are filled with the Spirit! We are always growing, maturing and learning and we will continue until we go to be with Jesus, or He returns for us.

Good response, but the point of being spirit filled is that of being Spirit filled and controlled, and last time i checked the Spirit of God isn't growing, maturing, or in a learning process. Don't give an excuse for floatingaxe for not trusting God. Last i checked we're required to be filled with the Spirit, regardless of our level of maturity.

Then by your discussion, I am indeed filled with the Spirit, regardless of my maturity! Like yourself, perhaps??

[Floatingaxe]

I don't believe tithing is done away with........but I do believe the curse from not tithing is gone and I believe the burden of tithe is gone. If a person wants to tithe by faith, being led by the Spirit, I think that is an awesome thing in the sight of the Lord.........but this thread was started by a sister who was confused about her giving and didn't want to get in trouble with God. IMO she should just be led by the Spirit.

Believe me, the part about the curse is still true today! I have lived it, and so do many still, who refuse to tithe. The curse has many faces...all found in debt and trouble.