c7l14 Posted March 12, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2007 My friend you keep posting that rapture is a false doctrine. I believe you are in error. there are many scriptures that speak of this event. I can only say this is what I believe. If you choose to believe it is not so there is nothing I can do to change your mind. But I would appreciate it if could state that this is your belief. I am not a happy camper when you say it is a false doctrine. It does not contradict anything about the Life death or ressurection of our Lord Jesus or the reasons for them or the benefits from them. Therefore I am free to believe this,and carry it in my heart for it will not hinder my walk of faith. As a christian you know what the reasons for life death and ressurection of oour Lord you just may not see the benefits the same way I do. Love in Christ littlejoe I agree with you. It's my belief. But don't forget that if there is no rapture and you find yourself in a troubling situation you never thought you'd be in, it will be much more dificult for you to go through it. Peace in Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7l14 Posted March 12, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2007 (edited) Those who believe the rapture false doctrine are at great peril because when the next 9/11 happens, when they see fear and terror spread all over the western countries, when the see the economy suffering a huge blow, people starving, plagues, lack of electricity, gangs rainsacking big cities and the police and the military shooting people and chaos reigning and mass exodus from cities into rural areas, when they see all those things and they see that there was no rapture, many will feel deceived and could even believe that the Bible was wrong! From what I've been reading here on these forums, very few people who post here seem to be preparing for those terrible times. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!! So, just how do you treat 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18? Is this also a FALSE DOCTRINE ? Inquring minds want to know! Off course 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 in not false doctrine. The point is that it doesn't refer to an event prior ou during the tribulation. It refers to the ressurection of the dead in Jesus Christ which is also mentioned in Revelation 20 and will only happen when Jesus returns to earth in the same way He ascended into Heaven. Plain and simply. Jesus is the only way to Heaven Edited March 12, 2007 by c7l14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 "The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him." (Nahum 1:7) The rapture is a false doctrine. Oops! Dearest One. The "Catching Up" is A Bible Verse. "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:17) From what I've been reading here on these forums, very few people who post here seem to be preparing for those terrible times. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!! Busy, Busy, Busy Not! "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me." (John 15:4) "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." (John 15:12) "The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him." (Psalms 28:7) So, just how do you treat 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18? Is this also a FALSE DOCTRINE ? Inquiring minds want to know! The Great Rapture All Quite Earth-side Surprise! Surprise! "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark," "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left." "Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." (Matthew 24:37:42) Comfort Words "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." "Wherefore comfort one another with these words." (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) Comfort Words "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ," "Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." "Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do." (1 Thessalonians 5:9-11) The Tribulation Wrath "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." (Matthew 24:21-22) "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matthew 24:27) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31) Maranatha! Hallelujah! "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Revelation 22:12-13) Yes and Amen! Come Quickly Lord Jesus, Come Quickly! Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Awh, Joe, you are a blessing from above and answers on target so many times! Since, you covered most of it.... I'll just answer in a simple sentence to the post.... Yes, I have prepared for the end days... Jesus is Lord over my life and my future is sealed with His covenant Blood.... Amen! ....even so... Lord Jesus COME!!! Yes i too Heres something about preparation. IF You get left behind and you enter the tribulation, and your not one of the 144,000 that are marked by God, the only chance you have at entering heaven is to be beheaded for christ. Not much preparation needed for that is there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7l14 Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Off course 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 in not false doctrine. The point is that it doesn't refer to an event prior ou during the tribulation. It refers to the ressurection of the dead in Jesus Christ which is also mentioned in Revelation 20 and will only happen when Jesus returns to earth in the same way He ascended into Heaven. Plain and simply. That is how I see scripture too. I do not see any scriptures that say the saints will leave this earth before, unless by death. For the Lord himself shall ldescend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air,, and so shall we ever be with the Lord Paul and Jesus agree Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all lthe tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other Matthew 24:29-31 Who are his elect??? His saints, the church who endured through the tribulation period. And Peter, in his reference to the Day of the Lord says: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10 This comes after the tribulation period, and is a part of God's wrath on the wicked unbelievers. This is what the saints who are alive and remain will be delivered from. Note: According to Scripture, the dead in Christ rise on the last day, and the catching away of the saints cannot happen before the dead in Christ rise first. To tmrfiles: I completely agree with you tmrfiles. One more thing: Important events are mentioned in the Bible more than once. Descriptions of the same event appear in more than one book in the Bible and some of them have extensive descriptons. It happened with 9/11 in the more than one book. So, would such a great event like many people being taken away from earth be described only in two or three verses and on top of that, those 2 or 3 verses being confused with the physical return of Jesus? It's simple: they are the same event. Here's one more fact that proves that there is no rapture: Jesus clearly said that He would come when we least expect it and He left open the question if there would be faith on earth when the Son of Man returns, implying that there will be almost no faith left. "Rapture" believers believe that the rapture is imminent. This fact alone means that there will be no rapture at this moment, because if it happened in the next years, people would be expecting it and therefore it would be false what Jesus said concerning the thief in the night. When those "rapturists" (no offense intended) see chaos reigning, their faith could diminish because they see Jesus as "an insurance against suffering". SOme may even feel that Jesus let them down. In the long term, the rapture doctrine will come to an end and no one will be waiting for a rapture anymore. On top of that and because of wars, plagues, severe worldwide economic depression, the horrors of mass casualties terrorist acts, etc, the love of many will grow cold and faith will diminish a lot. That is the great apostasy, and it's the great apostasy that allows the man of sin to be revealed. That happens because the sinful nature of man will be revealed in many people in general. During those times, a few, the elect, will keep their faith in Jesus Christ, and that's why they have two chapters dedicated to them in Revelation. Only by then, when there's almost no faith in the world, and those few elect have been killed by the beast, will Jesus return. A return like a thief in the night, when no one is expecting it. And to those who say that the elect are multitudes that conquer the beast in the tribulation, they are wrong. The 144000 are two groups: they are the elect of the tribulation that don't take the mark and it refers also to all the Christians who have died in Jesus Christ throughout History. It's both a group of people in the end times and a group of people spread out throughout the centuries. It's both those who have died in Christ and those who remain alive. One more thing: it's not obvious that when Jesus returns all the elect are dead. In fact, it seems that some are alive because when He returns there are christians alive. And since when He returns, apostasy abounds, then those people alive are the elect. However, there also some elect who are killed by the beast. Others go to the wilderness and it seems that some remain there until Jesus returns. In the book of Daniel he also speaks about an angel who seems to suggest that it will be very difficult to reach I think it's 2300 nights. Jesus also said that those day will be shortened because of the elect. Shortening means that His return comes earlier. This is another confirmation that when He returns there are elect alive in a apostate world and His angels will gather them. They are enduring in the wilderness while other were killed by the beast. Both the ones killed and those in the wilderness have conquered the beast because they didn't take the mark. Those verses about the one in the field taken and other left is the gathering of the elect at Jesus' return. All these verses fit together and describe than event. Those who believe the rapture have taken them out of context. There is no rapture. False doctrine. We will have to endure until the end: and the end will be 3 options: 1-until the beast kills us 2-until we die in the wilderness ( in chapter seven of Revelation it speaks about the elect not starving and not being thirsty any more) 3-until Jesus return and we are gathered May the love of Jesus be in us Edited March 13, 2007 by c7l14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash_the_archer Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 47 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 313 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 Do you really need to put all of your eggs in one basket? Cant you at least have a little babinet in your basement for dried food just in case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7l14 Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2007 Do you really need to put all of your eggs in one basket? Cant you at least have a little babinet in your basement for dried food just in case? What do you mean with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlejoe Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 125 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/08/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2007 My friend you keep posting that rapture is a false doctrine. I believe you are in error. there are many scriptures that speak of this event. I can only say this is what I believe. If you choose to believe it is not so there is nothing I can do to change your mind. But I would appreciate it if could state that this is your belief. I am not a happy camper when you say it is a false doctrine. It does not contradict anything about the Life death or ressurection of our Lord Jesus or the reasons for them or the benefits from them. Therefore I am free to believe this,and carry it in my heart for it will not hinder my walk of faith. As a christian you know what the reasons for life death and ressurection of oour Lord you just may not see the benefits the same way I do. Love in Christ littlejoe I agree with you. It's my belief. But don't forget that if there is no rapture and you find yourself in a troubling situation you never thought you'd be in, it will be much more dificult for you to go through it. Peace in Jesus My friend whatever situtation I will be in this life, My Lord will be with me in it. I walk in the Faith of God and the Freedom of Christ Jesus my Lord. And you are right it is your belief, now if you will just do me and your other brothers and sisters in Christ a favor and just state it as your belief we will be fine. Love in Christ littlejoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash_the_archer Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 47 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 313 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 Do you really need to put all of your eggs in one basket? Cant you at least have a little babinet in your basement for dried food just in case? What do you mean with that? Okay if you choose to belive the TV preacher, but cant you have a little box with food and water just in case if you would be wrong? You can see it like a fire "extuingesher"?, that thing you put down fires with You will most likley never use it but just in case. Just in case at least have a little something in case if the preacher was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7l14 Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2007 Do you really need to put all of your eggs in one basket? Cant you at least have a little babinet in your basement for dried food just in case? What do you mean with that? Okay if you choose to belive the TV preacher, but cant you have a little box with food and water just in case if you would be wrong? You can see it like a fire "extuingesher"?, that thing you put down fires with You will most likley never use it but just in case. Just in case at least have a little something in case if the preacher was wrong. You're speaking as if I believed in the rapture which is not the case. I don't believe what the TV speaker says. My food and water is what God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit teach me through the Bible. May the love of Jesus be in us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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