EricH Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2007 One of the first areas that need to be transformed is in the area of thought. I agree with Dallas Willard that thought has 4 basic components: 1. Ideas - Ideas are the general models or assumption of reality. Dallas Willard calls them "patterns of interpretation". Things like justice, love, freedom are all ideas 2. From ideas we develop images. Images are concrete expressions of ideas. The are filled with emotion. The cross is an image 3. Information is the communication or reception of knowledge. 4. Thinking is the ability of searching out information and deciding what mst be true. This information is then rolled up into sound ideas and images. As we enter into debate here, most of our disagreements come over ideas and images. When our ideas and the corresponding images are challenged, we tend to get defensive. Jesus came and challenged the images many had regarding the messiah. They eventually killed Him for challengin their images. Dallas gives the 4 dangers people face when trying to transform their thinking so that it no longer reflects that of the world system, but so that it reflects that of Jesus. a. Pride in the fact that I have ideas, images , and information and that I can rely on them. b. Willing ignorance. The decision to ignore information that is in conflict with ones ideas and images c. Allowing our desires to guide our thinking d. Allowing the ideas and images that are in conflict with God to have an undo influence in our minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Hamburgers! Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,144 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 163 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1985 Share Posted March 13, 2007 One of the first areas that need to be transformed is in the area of thought. I agree qith Dallas Willard that through has 4 basic components: 1. Ideas - Ideas are the general models or assumption of reality. Dallas Willard calls them "patterns of interpretation". Things like justice, love, freedom are all ideas 2. From ideas we develop images. Images are concrete expressions of ideas. The are filled with emotion. The cross is an image 3. Information is the communication or reception of knowledge. 4. Thinking is the ability of searching out information and deciding what mst be true. This information is then rolled up into sound ideas and images. As we enter into debate here, most of our disagreements come over ideas and images. When our ideas and the corresponding images are challenged, we tend to get defensive. Jesus came and challenged the images many had regarding the messiah. They eventually killed Him for challengin their images. Dallas gives the 4 dangers people face when trying to transform their thinking so that it no longer reflects that of the world system, but so that it reflects that of Jesus. a. Pride in the fact that I have ideas, images , and information and that I can rely on them. b. Willing ignorance. The decision to ignore information that is in conflict with ones ideas and images c. Allowing our desires to guide our thinking Very true and well written! It applies to both sides in almost every debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingwalker Posted March 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 970 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13, 2007 This is a very handy post as I will also print it as well. Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terter Posted March 15, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 473 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2007 Item "d" is definitely a battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted March 15, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 15, 2007 Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.2:12 Posted March 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 161 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/13/1934 Share Posted March 17, 2007 d. Allowing the ideas and images that are in conflict with God to have an undo influence in our minds This is, without a doubt, the most troubling aspect of our thinking and really is the foundation upon which rests all false doctrine. By the way, Erich, could you cite for me the work of Dallas Willard, you know, book, chapter, page no, etc. where this quote is found? I would like to use it in a book I am planning but will need to quote it with reference so that I might avoid plaglarism. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Prime Posted March 18, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1981 Share Posted March 18, 2007 There needs to be an integration, rather than a seperation, of faith and learning...as C.S. Lewis states so profoundly in his Miracles (New York: MacMillan, 1947), 96: "It is always shocking to meet life where we thought we were alone. 'Look out!' we cry, 'it's alive.' And therefore this is the very point at which so many draw back--I would have done so myself if I could--and proceed no further with Christianity. An 'impersonal God'--well and good. A subjective God of beauty, truth and goodness, inside our own heads--better still. A formless life-force surging through us, a vast power which we can tap--best of all. But God Himself, alive, pulling at the other end of the cord, perhaps approaching at infinite speed, the hunter, king, husband--that is quite another matter. There comes a moment when the children who have been playing at burglars hush suddenly: was that a real footstep in the hall? There comes a moment when people who have been dabbling in religion ('Man's search for God!') suddenly draw back. Supposing we really found Him? We never meant it to come to that! Worse still, supposing He had found us?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 There needs to be an integration, rather than a seperation, of faith and learning...as C.S. Lewis states so profoundly in his Miracles (New York: MacMillan, 1947), 96: "It is always shocking to meet life where we thought we were alone. 'Look out!' we cry, 'it's alive.' And therefore this is the very point at which so many draw back--I would have done so myself if I could--and proceed no further with Christianity. An 'impersonal God'--well and good. A subjective God of beauty, truth and goodness, inside our own heads--better still. A formless life-force surging through us, a vast power which we can tap--best of all. But God Himself, alive, pulling at the other end of the cord, perhaps approaching at infinite speed, the hunter, king, husband--that is quite another matter. There comes a moment when the children who have been playing at burglars hush suddenly: was that a real footstep in the hall? There comes a moment when people who have been dabbling in religion ('Man's search for God!') suddenly draw back. Supposing we really found Him? We never meant it to come to that! Worse still, supposing He had found us?" "And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth." (Deuteronomy 5:24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted March 20, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 d. Allowing the ideas and images that are in conflict with God to have an undo influence in our minds This is, without a doubt, the most troubling aspect of our thinking and really is the foundation upon which rests all false doctrine. By the way, Erich, could you cite for me the work of Dallas Willard, you know, book, chapter, page no, etc. where this quote is found? I would like to use it in a book I am planning but will need to quote it with reference so that I might avoid plaglarism. Thanks Phil, The title of the book is Renovation of the Heart. It is chapter 6 starting on page 110 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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