Akiko Posted March 30, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 211 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/14/2006 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The only research I've done into the far-off light question is in the New Answers book that I quoted earlier, and I haven't finished reading it yet as school's been busy. I can't guarentee the stregnth of the arguments or the theroies, but it may at least give you a little bit of Christian input on that issue. I haven't done enough reading to be able to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota190 Posted March 30, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 640 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30, 2007 i have not read all of the posts on this thread, i am dropping down to add something, if it has already been said please forgive my impatience. i am a young earth believer, i have read much that only enhances and strengthens by belief in such. the bible for one and for another, God was the only witness to creation as far as i know. Jesus being God and a member of the triune God. i believe the Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God. so i believe we have the only eye witness account in existence. for some of you that require all of the scientific information i suggest the following link which is to the "institute for creation research http://www.icr.org. i have found it to be extremely informative with all of their research documented and available. as well as free updates and subscriptions available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota190 Posted March 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 640 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2007 objections are being raised because a man or group of men, specifically unbelievers (scoffers) cannot make God and his actions during creation and numerous times throughout history, fit into his little box. man wants to limit God in his glory while trying to convince us of mans' divinity. (usually the divinity of the scoffer in the issue). God does not concern himself with complying with your measuring devices, ideas, criteria and so on. God is not limited by you (the unbeliever) and as much as he loves you as one of his children, no matter how loudly you stomp your feet, the beginning and end of the universe does not hinge on you or any of your actions or opinions. the facts are there, as established by God, our acceptance of those facts or our refusal to accept those facts, does not negate that they are still facts. if i give you a long drawn out answer as to exactly how God created the universes, and galaxies, by mere thought or by mechanical means, it would be meaningless, you could not and would not if you could accept it, because you are predisposed to not. so admit THAT right up front, why don't you? there are many many scientists that have research and documentation that show the opposite of the scientists that you would quote, showing a young earth and nothing is out of balance in Gods' creation, nor is anything beyond his plan. the same for documentation that proves the THEORY of evolution is a failed and erronous set of presuppositions. YOUR ARMS ARE TOO SHORT TO BOX WITH GOD!!!! you cannot create something out of nothing. if you stand on a construction site and the blocks and lumber are not there you are not going to build a building, you do not have the materials needed. God, who creates the materials that we build with, can and did, just as he said he did, create something really incredible, from nothing. just as he can and does turn many nothings (us) into his privileged sons and daughters. why is this so difficult? it is so simple once you have the heart for it. it is we as humans that complicate it. or is it the father of lies that complicates these things so you won't get it. when you complicate something simple, that creates confusion, he is the father of that also, since he is the opposite of God and the bible states, God is not the author of confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota190 Posted March 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 640 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2007 Josh-13 I said I don't know How God created the universe. now, interesting you say you dont believe it's unanswerable, when you don't know if there is or isn't a God, how can you come close to comprehending the mind of God? I never said that I wouldn't like to know, I just simply answered, I do not know what mechanism he used, honestly neither do you. If this answer is satisfying to you, fine. But I'd much rather continue searching for an answer instead of calling it unanswerable and giving up before I start. Josh-13 Now, as far as this question being unanswerable, it honestly is, It's one of those things, no one can truly know unless they where there. How do you know about Jesus? You have your bible of course, so even though you weren't there, you know what happened. Now is there any reason why the book that we read to learn about the past should be written in English (or Hebrew)? No. It can just as easily be read if it's written in the language of the stars. I think there is an answer to the question (even if we are unable to find it), and I think that the only way we will find it is by reading the histories written in the cosmos (with a little help from particle accelerators ). Whether this leads us to the conclusion that god did, after all, create the universe, or whether it was a singularity or monopole particle or whatever, can only be found if we try to find it. Concluding that the question is unanswerable isn't a satisfying answer to me. to wax philosophical for a minute, you can't know it in you present state, but the Bible IS the language of the stars, it was written by the keeper and creator of the stars, he knows each one. you can not attribute to man that which is Gods'. no matter how hard you try, you will continue to fail. you don't have to accept an answer as truth, for it to be truth. you cannot be "as God" or little gods, as the new age beliefs try to tell you when they deny the deity of Christ! it is the same old lie told in the garden of eden, in Genesis, in the Bible. Good luck in your pursuit, let me know how it goes for you. however, i wouldn't waste too much time on it if i were you. keep your eyes on Israel, it is the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted April 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 Josh-13 I said I don't know How God created the universe. now, interesting you say you dont believe it's unanswerable, when you don't know if there is or isn't a God, how can you come close to comprehending the mind of God? I never said that I wouldn't like to know, I just simply answered, I do not know what mechanism he used, honestly neither do you. If this answer is satisfying to you, fine. But I'd much rather continue searching for an answer instead of calling it unanswerable and giving up before I start. Josh-13 Now, as far as this question being unanswerable, it honestly is, It's one of those things, no one can truly know unless they where there. How do you know about Jesus? You have your bible of course, so even though you weren't there, you know what happened. Now is there any reason why the book that we read to learn about the past should be written in English (or Hebrew)? No. It can just as easily be read if it's written in the language of the stars. I think there is an answer to the question (even if we are unable to find it), and I think that the only way we will find it is by reading the histories written in the cosmos (with a little help from particle accelerators ). Whether this leads us to the conclusion that god did, after all, create the universe, or whether it was a singularity or monopole particle or whatever, can only be found if we try to find it. Concluding that the question is unanswerable isn't a satisfying answer to me. How do I know about Jesus? What the Holy Spirit reveals to me, I have my bible as a guide, but the Lord is my foundation for understanding, One thing You do not understand, and you will never understand unless you accept this, the Lord works in our lives, he does things that cannot be explained in our lives, we cannot be moved in our faith, because the Lord is standing by our side, we know him, we hear his voice, his words shall remain and stand against all wickedness, and unrighteousness, though we all fall short of the Glory of God, we are washed in his blood, cleansed and made white as snow from this world of darkness that blackens our soul. Now, I know you can't comprehend this, the feeling of his presence, the love he pours in our hearts, the old will be washed away and the new created, will you be washed away with the old? it is an imposibility to witness something You where not there, and the only way you will find your answer is in The Lord Jesus. Truth is only satisfying when you accept it. We present the truth, because we know truth in a living form, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, we know him, we hear his voice, we follow him, he is light, this world is darkness, finding answers in darkness you will only stumble over what you do not see. I do wish you know the impact, and power Jesus has when you've got a personal relationship with him, mabie one day you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted April 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Josh. You prefer to look to religion for answers, I prefer to look to science. Both ways have their merits, depending on what your aims are . I don't think anything is really going to change that any time soon, so I can't really see this discussion going much further I do tend to look at science as well, But as you and I both know, in science there is no absolutes truths. James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ya see, I see two forms of religion, one is worldly, one is an action. I prefer chose the action one. And Jesus is above all religion, all authorities. I do wish you knew the joy he brings, It's like nothing you could ever experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted April 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Still, I find no person on here has answered my question. To all Christians who do not believe in the Big Bang, What mechanism did God use to create the Earth? How did He do it? If the universe is 6000 years old, how do we have observable light coming from systems conservatively 7 billion light years away? Why would God create a universe that testifies to the fact that it is app 100 billion years old, if it is only 6000 years old. No where in the bible does it say the universe is 6000 years old. What mechanism did God use? His words, ya know "Let there be light" Actualy I can't comprehend the mind of God, I do not know what mechanism he used, if he used any, I can say that he did. What you said does not exactly help your position. You are correct, the Bible most definitely does not say the Earth is 6000 years old. However, that is the age that young Earth creationist almost universally use. Some will use as old as 8000, but 6000 is the common held belief. God made it quite plain in Genesis that He was using a mechanism. He went into 6 distinct stages of progressive creation. He did not merely say "creation be finished in an instant." No, He created in distinct phases using a logical mechanism for creation. How old is the Earth? If you believe in 6 literal day creation, it is pretty easy to answer that question. How old is the Earth? How old is the earth, Though I believe it to be 6000 years old, I will admit I could be wrong on that. Honestly, I agree he created in distinct phases, but could you explain to me a little what you mean by using a logical mechanism for creation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted April 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.07 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2007 You prefer to look to religion for answers, I prefer to look to science. Both ways have their merits, depending on what your aims are . I don't think anything is really going to change that any time soon, so I can't really see this discussion going much further You don't "look to science" - your view is simply the atheistic worldview known as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I found this talk interesting and thought it might add (?) to this thread. Dr. Francis Collins National Prayer Breakfast http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith..._laborator.html In that context, science becomes a means not only of discovery, but of worship. When as a scientist I have the great privilege of learning something that no human knew before, as a believer I also have the indescribable experience of having caught a glimpse of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted April 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 You prefer to look to religion for answers, I prefer to look to science. Both ways have their merits, depending on what your aims are . I don't think anything is really going to change that any time soon, so I can't really see this discussion going much further You don't "look to science" - your view is simply the atheistic worldview known as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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