There is no god

[enthousiasmos]

I will begin with a question:

Is it POSSIBLE that there is no supernatural being? I'm not saying that is what you believe, I am asking if it is -possible- that you are incorrect?

i'm going to reply to your question with some questions:

1. If i am wrong in my faith and there is nothing after death, what have I waisted in having faith?

2. If there is something after death, what have you risked in not believing?

3. When was that last time you laid out under the billions of stars and not thought WOWWIE!!? God is there. He is the maker.

[warrior4him007]

I will begin with a question:

Is it POSSIBLE that there is no supernatural being? I'm not saying that is what you believe, I am asking if it is -possible- that you are incorrect?

i doubt it very much theres been to much in my life to KNOW JESUS IS REAL 1 I use to be a si and thrue Gods LOVE I HAVE STOPED THAT PTL

2God HASSHOWN HIM SELF REAL TO ME BY youll have to pm me but GODHAS BEEN MY PROVIDER and my best friend

# GOD HAS HEALED MY DEPRESSION AND MY ADDICTION TO DRUGS AND ALCHOL

[ted]

Amen.

t.

[artsylady]

I cannot fathom that

a) everything I see around me is a result of trillions upon trillions of very luck highly impossible accidents

b) that the answers to prayer I've received could be explained in some other manner, although I can't imagine how

c) that the supernatural experiences I've had were not real, although I can't imagine how they occurred

c) that the Bible is some sort of conspiracy created by people who didn't know each other, who lied and died to make these words come to fruition, for no apparent reason

d) that Jesus was not the son of God and therefore a liar and a lunatic, yet no one can find fault in anything else he ever said or did, other than that he said he was god.

I can go on and on but I gotta run.

"Basic argument from incredulity. Surely many things in your own faith you find difficulty understanding? One cannot conclude something is untrue because one cannot understand how it works. Most people in the world would struggle with advanced calculus - can we therefore say it is a lie?"

THese are arguments based on what makes more logical sense.

When I see everything around me, the diverse ecosystems, good chains, perfect balances of nature that work so harmoniously, it's simply more beleievable that an intelligent designer was behind it, not that there are trillions of lucky accidents that brought it all together so beautifully,

Can you explain how this answer to prayer happened? I prayed silently and daily for a specific trip with Youth for Christ when I was a teen. I never told a soul about my request. An acquaintance of my mother's that I barely knew felt that God was telling her to send me on this trip. I had a teen brother, a teen sister and this woman had two teens as well. She sent none of them - only me. Now if you can figure out a good logical explanation as to why she felt when she prayed that God was telling her to send ME, while I was praying that I could go, I'd very much like to hear it.

I'm going to have to post short posts because my computer has a virus and keeps shutting off.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I have been extremely busy and away from home a lot these last few weeks.

[artsylady]

"

c) that the supernatural experiences I've had were not real, although I can't imagine how they occurred"

Okay, perhaps you can also tell me why and how this happened.

I had just left my daughter's father who was my husband. A cheater and physically abusive man.

We had stayed with friends, then my mom and then we finally got our own place. I had finished unpacking and my daughter wanted to go to the nearby park to play. I sat on the bench and was watching her on the slide, looking forward to a new start. The exact phrase that came to my head was "well it's just you and me kid". ...

At that moment, something inexplicable came upon me. It was a peace or something otherworldly. It didn't come from within me, but from outside and seemed to penetrate me. A feeling of love and peace so strong, it was unforgettable, but also indescribable.

There was no mistaking it for anything else I've felt in 42 years. It probably lasted less than 10 seconds but was profound. (It did occur to me three more times in one night as well when I was going through something) I knew then and there immediately that God was telling me that He was also with us and was taking care of us.

What do YOU think it was?

[artsylady]

"c) that the Bible is some sort of conspiracy created by people who didn't know each other, who lied and died to make these words come to fruition, for no apparent reason"

I started a post on the miracle of the Bible itself. I think I called it a massive conspiracy theory in the title of the thread. If you're like to read it, I can find it for you.

It's too hard to beleive that these were just mere men making up stories. I'm sorry. There's so much more to it than that.

"d) that Jesus was not the son of God and therefore a liar and a lunatic, yet no one can find fault in anything else he ever said or did, other than that he said he was god."

If he was a liar or a lunatic, why did so many men die. Men who had witnessed his miracles. Men who still doubted him even after witnessing his miracles. It wasnt until after the resurrection that they became the fierce witnesses, facing jail torture and prison.

It wasn't simple brainwashing. It was many years after Jesus ascention,that they died for what they beleived to be truth combined with the fact that the apostles weren't even together. They were separated to spread out and preach.

If you want a balanced view, read Simon greenleaf, who was the Royale Professor of EVIDENCE at Harvard, who became a Christian after doing research on who Jesus was.

[artsylady]

"I think many believers on the board will simply use your post to bolster their own views. "

I'm sure they can bolster their own views every time they take a nature walk or look out their front door.

"Strength in numbers and all that."

Strength in reason and logic.

"This kind of validation is something I used to do as an evangelical Christian."

So what happened?

"a) You are of course hinting at evolution by natural selection. Suffice to say the scientific community has never viewed the process as being "pure chance" or "accidents". "

Of course they'd never describe it in such a way, but if not by chance, then what was it?

"b) If God is answering your prayers, the number of answered vs. unaswered prayers should be disproportionate, no?"

Do you mean the number of prayers answered the way I want them?

"In my own experience, and those of many others (Christian or otherwise), there is nothing to suggest that the outcome of prayers is anything significantly different to normal probability."

There was a scientific prayer study done on patients going through invitro fertilization. None of the couples knew they were being prayed for. Guess what happened?

" If you are like I was, you do not use answered prayers to "weigh up" the existence of God anyway, so the point is trivial."

Although I'm much stronger now and don't do this, it had been something I had done in the past.

"c) What supernatural experiences? We quite happily ignore visions and babbling of individuals as insanity, but when it occurs with several people of the same religion, we attribute it to God. How does one differentiate? The individual would cite "feeling" that it is truly a divine experience in the same way as a Christian - the experiences are always subjective."

I had the feeling. It wasn't something I asked for or sought. It was completely unexpected. And there is no way in God's green earth that you can tell me that it was not real.

Sure, I could use methods to bolster my enthusiasm through praise and worship and walk out of church feeling higher than a kite and possibly think that I'd experienced something supernatural during that time. but this isn't what that was.

"If you have experiences other than tongues or visions, please elaborate and I will continue on this thread."

I've had neither but mentioned them above.

"d) Not saying anything bad doesn't make you a superb moral teacher. The CS Lewis argument also fails to consider that like all the religions predating it, Christianity was simply fabricated."

Which CS Lewis argument exactly?

Remember, Christianity is based on Judaism, which IS the oldest sustaining religion.

"A fictional man can happily claim to be God, and we are not going to question his moral fibre or mental health."

We're not? I certainly am.

In fact, I really like your name, FaithQuestions. Faith DOES question.

[Grungekid]

The rebuttals for "evolution has not been proven" and "there are no transitional fossils" are dealt with on Talk Origins - as such the simplest thing to do is to visit those pages. You'll find that they cite peer-reviewed research papers when it's called for. If you wish to continue the debate in a worthwhile direction, I would emplore you to write up what you find objectionable in those two pages, including any specific objections to the research papers cited.

In addition to what is on the pages, I'd like to add that scientific theories are under no obligation to be 100% accurate from their conception. It does not bring the theory into question if there are minor kinks. Arguing that the theory should be perfect from the start is creating a false analogy with a supernatural religion, which of course should be perfect, assuming one believes it to be inspired.

Uh, how are you taking the debate in a new direction? You basically just said that you thought there were problems with a theory that is supposed to be perfect, when most of your points have not been proven yet, and thus there is nothing wrong with a theory that is supposed to be perfect, thus the theory is not in danger of being refuted because it does not agree with it's own infallibillity.