Should Christians observe Jewish Law?

[Floatingaxe]

I don't judge people's hearts. That is Jesus' job. You can do it for me, it seems.

Shalom FA,

Heed your own advice and don't "personalize" your replies.

And don't be so nasty. You are the one telling people what their motives are and that they are wrong, not me.

You sure can dish it out. You should in fact, look at your own heart, not others.

I am not nasty. You mistake strength with bellicosity. I am not telling anyone what their personal motives are. That is between them and God. I am speaking generalities.

I am entitled to my opinions based on my walk with God and the wisdom He has given me. People are free to disagree, but I am not judging anyone's heart or motive.

[EricH]

Saints,

Just a reminder from the TOS

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

[Eliyahuw]

Oh well, I am not saying that people who choose to follow the Law are looking for righteousness in every case. I am just saying that the Word says it is a pointless endeavour. Jesus has won us our freedom from it.

How can quotes from the Word of God constitute a strawman?

Shalom FA,

When the quotes are supporting the false position that those that observe the law are seeking righteousness, it is a Straw Man argument.

What other purpose would one place themselves under the condemnation of the LAW? it sure isn't going to save them, only condemn them.

[Vickilynn]

What other purpose would one place themselves under the condemnation of the LAW? it sure isn't going to save them, only condemn them.

Shalom E,

Have you not read any of the numerous posts in the numerous threads on this very topic?

And you still ask this question?

Again, for those reading, the LAW cannot save.

The LAW cannot justify.

The LAW is G-d's Word, His plan, His wisdom.

The Law is good, not to be reviled.

Jesus did not abolish the Law.

Those that choose to observe the Law do so unto the L-rd and the Scriptures FORBID others to judge their motives.

[Eliyahuw]

What other purpose would one place themselves under the condemnation of the LAW? it sure isn't going to save them, only condemn them.

Shalom E,

Have you not read any of the numerous posts in the numerous threads on this very topic?

And you still ask this question?

Again, for those reading, the LAW cannot save.

The LAW cannot justify.

The LAW is G-d's Word, His plan, His wisdom.

The Law is good, not to be reviled.

Jesus did not abolish the Law.

Those that choose to observe the Law do so unto the L-rd and the Scriptures FORBID others to judge their motives.

It still doesn't answer my question. the Law is condemnation. Thats its sole purpose. To convict. Once your a christian, theres nothing to convict. you have been pardoned.

I don't understand why anyone would choose to place themselves under condemnation.

Isn't it like riding a fence?? your under the law but you have the covenant of Grace as a backup if you screw up under the law???

The law is history. It is used to show us where we came from and how we get towhere we are now in christ. As with everything in this universe, things have a purpose for a time then they go away. In fact i think christ said as much concerning the law.

When Christ came and made the new covenant of Grace with man, that ended the covenant of the law. old things pass away.

Jesus didn't abolish the law but he FINISHED or Ended the law. the law can still exist being stopped/ended/fulfilled. But if its ended, that means it holds no weight at all over those under grace.

When you fulfill something you complete it, finish it, end the project. When you end a project you archive it and go on to the new things.

[Vickilynn]

It still doesn't answer my question.

Shalom E,

Of course it does. It's been answered repeatedly. You just won't accept the answer.

the Law is condemnation. Thats its sole purpose. To convict.

And that's where you're wrong.

The Law is not condemnation. G-d's plan was set before time and it is not evil, nor ugly, nor something to despise.

Jesus and Paul said as much.

You do not understand if all you see is condemnation. That is not accurate. But that's why you cannot understand the richness and beauty of observing the law.

They speak and glorify Jesus. Jesus is not condemnation.

Jesus did not end the law, He embodied it.

[Guest yod]

Romans 3:

28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

The real problem in this discussion is one of education. Most christians have been educated in hellenistic interpretation of hebraic texts so they have no basis for understanding context. It's like trying to explain snow to a man who lives in Ecudor.....there is no context for understanding something cold & white that falls from the sky.

In the same way, the overwhelming majority of christians simply do not understand the context from which the Bible is given to them so they confuse "law" with "legalism" because it all they have ever known.

I was able to understand grace more fully when I was taught by a jewish man who understood the law. I strongly encourage anyone who wants to know grace and mercy to humble themselves and receive wisdom/knowledge.

Confess to yourself that there is a world of hebraic understanding that the institutional & historic church has rejected because of thousands of years of racial bias against jews. This was done to our detriment and poverty.

As your brother and friend, and as one who has known both the hebraic and hellenistic worlds within the church, I assure you that you have easily been missing more than half of the wisdom you could receive from the Lord.

[Vickilynn]

Romans 3:

28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,

30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

The real problem in this discussion is one of education. Most christians have been educated in hellenistic interpretation of hebraic texts so they have no basis for understanding context. It's like trying to explain snow to a man who lives in Ecudor.....there is no context for understanding something cold & white that falls from the sky.

In the same way, the overwhelming majority of christians simply do not understand the context from which the Bible is given to them so they confuse "law" with "legalism" because it all they have ever known.

I was able to understand grace more fully when I was taught by a jewish man who understood the law. I strongly encourage anyone who wants to know grace and mercy to humble themselves and receive wisdom/knowledge.

Confess to yourself that there is a world of hebraic understanding that the institutional & historic church has rejected because of thousands of years of racial bias against jews. This was done to our detriment and poverty.

As your brother and friend, and as one who has known both the hebraic and hellenistic worlds within the church, I assure you that you have easily been missing more than half of the wisdom you could receive from the Lord.

Shalom Yod,

Excellent post, thank you. I agree!

[Yahsway]

Paul says Romans 7:22

For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man.

How can you delight in something that many percieve as being "done away" with?

Paul also says Roman 7 :10

And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. (11) For SIN taking occasion by the commandment, decieved me, and by it killed me.

Notice its not the law (commandment) that Paul says decieved and killed him, but SIN

He realized that SIN through the instrument of the Law made him conscious of his spiritual death.

verse 13

Has then what is good (meaning the Law) become death to me? Certainly Not! But SIN, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me thru what is Good (the Law) so that sin thru the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

It is SIN, NOT the Law that is to blame. Gods law, reflecting His righteous moral principles "IS HOLY". It simply does not have the power to make us righteous.

Then Paul goes on to explain his own experience as a Christian to teach us that the Law CAN enlighten one's conscience, but its powerless to produce holiness of life . BUT, the fault is NOT with the Law of God, the fault is is with the law of SIN, that indwelling depravity of human nature which rebels against Gods Laws.

Yes its true that "old things pass away" but Paul never meant the Law of God passing away. He meant our sinful nature passing away thru Jesus. Jesus said that not one jot or titl should by no means pass away until heaven and earth pass away, and that hasnt happened yet.

Roman 8:3

For what the law could not do in that it was weak thru the flesh (our sinful flesh nature) God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh on account of sin; (Not on account of "doing away" with His Law) He (GOD) CONDEMNED SIN (NOT His Law) in the flesh, that the righteous reguirment of the law might be fulfilled in us who do NOT walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

God did NOT send Jesus to do away with His laws, BUT to do away with SIN.

"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, BUT those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is Death (ever hear preachers preach on "carnal Christians?" there is no such thing.) but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, nor indeed can be.

Are believers subject to the Law of God? If those laws are written on or minds and hearts and we are not carnally minded (unbelievers) then I would have to say Yes. But if those Laws are done away with, how can one have them written upon their minds and hearts?

Ever hear the saying "We should walk as Jesus walked? Okay, did Jesus ever break the commandments of His Father?

What does Jesus have to say about the Laws of God the Father?

Matthew 5:19

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, AND teaches men to do so, shall be called LEAST in the kingdom of heaven; BUT whoever DOES and TEACHES them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Notice Jesus did not say that those who break or who teaches men to break gods commandments would not enter into the kingdom of heaven. He said they would be called Least in the kingdom.

Notice in verse 17 Jesus says He came not to destroy the Law and the prophets but to "fulfill them" (NOT do away with them)

verse 18 He says "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by NO MEANS pass from the Law till ALL IS FULFILLED."

All is not fulfilled until we enter into the Kingdom of heaven for he goes onto say "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men to do so shall be called least in the kingdom."

Jesus came in the flesh and yet He was/is also God. Not breaking any commandments. He was without SIN and became sin for us, and laid down his Flesh/body to become the righteous requirment for us. Jesus did not die to do away with the law, but to do away with Sin and death. You cannot very well preach to a non-believer and tell them that they are sinners according to the Law if Jesus Did away with the law. That does not make since.

You see our righteousness is found in Him only. We dont obey the Law for righteousness in the flesh but we obey out of our hearts and minds and love for what He did for us.

Its like being married and wanting to do what pleases my husband. Not because we have a marriage contract/covenant, but because of my love for him, I want to subject myself to him and do what pleases him.

Its the same way with Gods laws. I obey them out of my love for what He did for me. David in the pslams had much to say about Gods laws, how he meditated on them, how they are holy and good. And, David even broke a law with Bathsheba, but God was merciful and gracious even then for David should have been stoned.

Its the same with us, if we sin, we now have an advocate with the Father. We are not taken out and stoned but we have forgiveness thru Jesus. This is grace. Gods laws did not go away, but Jesus blood covers us. Jesus was nailed to the cross NOT to do away with Gods laws, but to do away with the penality/ordinances for breaking those laws.

He paid the Debt. Now if Jesus paid that debt, are we not debtors to Him to walk as He walked? Did Jesus die to do away with His Fathers Laws or do do away with sin and death? Remember, the Law was not put in place to save anyone, it was put in place to show Israel how to walk in holiness with God, each other and the Nations around them.

Jesus died to pay the penalty of our breaking those laws. If the Law has been done away with as many teach, then there is no one right now breaking those Laws, whether unbeliever or believer. Nothing to show anyone their need for a Savior. Nothing to show anyone how to walk in holiness.

The church has taught a saving grace thru faith, but saved from what? Gods Holy Law or from Our sinful state?

If a person is brought to the knowledge of their sin thru the Law and is told of the One who came to save them from their sin and to have eternal life in Him, and that person says yes to Jesus and becomes born-again, do you turn around to him and say

"Glory hallaluyah brother, you are now saved, and oh by the way, those Laws I showed you in the scripture, well dont worry about them, the have been "done away with".

I know of some people who believe just that. They continue in their sins, saying the grace of God has saved them and nothing they do will keep them from entering into the kingdom. They refer to themselves as "carnal Christian".

I call it "greasy grace".

Oh well, gotta go to work, shalom

[Guest yod]

We dont obey the Law for righteousness in the flesh but we obey out of our hearts and minds and love for what He did for us.

Its the same way with Gods laws. I obey them out of my love for what He did for me.

Not me!

If my "love" or my "works" counted for anything, it would be dead religion. I observe the wisdom of God to find out why it is wise.

I have found that the dietary laws are the most healthy diet a person could have. I am protected from "all the diseases of Eygpt" by abiding in those instructions. I break these requirement quite often (weakness for Pepperoni pizza) and accept that I will reap in the flesh what I sow in the flesh. But there is no spiritual reward for anything we do in the flesh anyway.

If I try to impose this view on another person it becomes DEAD RELIGION. If I live it by example and they ask why and decide through the Holy Spirit to do likewise, then I have established the law in his/her life.

Having said that....there is a very deep spiritual level of the Law that can only be understood if you "do" it.

Example: the dietary laws can't make us pure but they can teach us about ingesting "uncleaness" into ourselves in an objective lesson of self-denial.

More examples would be the Feast Days, Shabbat, etc....there is lot you are missing if you don't "do" these things. Not that it makes you inferior or less spiritually favored than someone who does...but you'll never know what I'm talking about otherwise.

It's OK The Father loves you anyway!