Vickilynn Posted April 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yes, you have a right to defend yourself when attacked. The question is, how far do you take "self defense". Once defense becomes a first-strike offense situation is when it gets in a gray area. no question about it, make sure the attacker is dead. thats how far you take it. Dead man can't testify against you. Shalom, I guess you don't watch CSI. Dead men can certainly testify against you!! It's called "evidence" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted April 19, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2007 Life is worth defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal-Cain Posted April 19, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1981 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Luke 22 passage Jesus does tell his disciples to get a sword. Jesus knew that now was the time when Jesus would be threatened (and later killed) and his followers would be threatened as well. Jesus was giving approval of the fact that one has the right to defend himself. In v. 38 he says that two swords are enough and his reaction may be one of disgust that the disciples took things so literally. Then in v. 51 he chastises one of the disciples for using the sword. This is hardly firm ground to make your argument from, especially when you consider that two swords would not defend 12 men all that well. Moreover, we never hear of the apostles fighting off their attackers. They lay down their lives or escape. Note that I am not arguing against self-defense but Luke 22 does not address the issue. I would say that self-defense and especially lethal force should be a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roselady Posted April 19, 2007 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 180 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/07/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/04/1970 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I am with you dude! You know I dont need a sword at all. The Word is sharper than any two edged sword, or any two swords. I just carry the sword of the Lord in my heart and fear not! Luke 22 passage Jesus does tell his disciples to get a sword. Jesus knew that now was the time when Jesus would be threatened (and later killed) and his followers would be threatened as well. Jesus was giving approval of the fact that one has the right to defend himself. In v. 38 he says that two swords are enough and his reaction may be one of disgust that the disciples took things so literally. Then in v. 51 he chastises one of the disciples for using the sword. This is hardly firm ground to make your argument from, especially when you consider that two swords would not defend 12 men all that well. Moreover, we never hear of the apostles fighting off their attackers. They lay down their lives or escape. Note that I am not arguing against self-defense but Luke 22 does not address the issue. I would say that self-defense and especially lethal force should be a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yes, you have a right to defend yourself when attacked. The question is, how far do you take "self defense". Once defense becomes a first-strike offense situation is when it gets in a gray area. no question about it, make sure the attacker is dead. thats how far you take it. Dead man can't testify against you. Are we related?? Countless men, women, and children are murdered each year for that very reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK202002 Posted April 24, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 MK, were you talking verbally or physically? I assumed it was verbally until I started reading other people's answers. (There goes that assuming spelling problem again !) Anyway, if it's physically, I agree with LadyC. Unless, of course, it's in a situation where the Spirit's telling you NOT to. He would have His reasons for doing so, but I don't believe it would be b/c it's wrong of us to do so. (If that made any sense at all !) If it's verbally, I would go with what a friend of mine says: when we become Christians, we give up our right to be treated right. That's not to say we become doormats, but rather, we leave to God what is HIS right to defend: us! When we are mistreated, misjudged, misrepresented, I think our main concern is not ourselves, but how Christ is (or is not) living His life through us. Jesus suffered when others mistreated Him because of His love for them! I know it sounds a bit idealistic, but I think the suffering we share with Christ as Paul talks about in Philippians is to love in that same way. We hurt for the people who mistreat us because we know it's the hurt in them causing them to do it. And if asked for a show of hands of people who do this on a continuous basis, I would be sitting on mine! I'm pressing towards, not reached the mark ! hmmm, I gues both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK202002 Posted April 24, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 MK, were you talking verbally or physically? I assumed it was verbally until I started reading other people's answers. (There goes that assuming spelling problem again !) Anyway, if it's physically, I agree with LadyC. Unless, of course, it's in a situation where the Spirit's telling you NOT to. He would have His reasons for doing so, but I don't believe it would be b/c it's wrong of us to do so. (If that made any sense at all !) If it's verbally, I would go with what a friend of mine says: when we become Christians, we give up our right to be treated right. That's not to say we become doormats, but rather, we leave to God what is HIS right to defend: us! When we are mistreated, misjudged, misrepresented, I think our main concern is not ourselves, but how Christ is (or is not) living His life through us. Jesus suffered when others mistreated Him because of His love for them! I know it sounds a bit idealistic, but I think the suffering we share with Christ as Paul talks about in Philippians is to love in that same way. We hurt for the people who mistreat us because we know it's the hurt in them causing them to do it. And if asked for a show of hands of people who do this on a continuous basis, I would be sitting on mine! I'm pressing towards, not reached the mark ! hhhmmmm.....i guess either verbal or physical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK202002 Posted April 24, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 MK, were you talking verbally or physically? I assumed it was verbally until I started reading other people's answers. (There goes that assuming spelling problem again !) Anyway, if it's physically, I agree with LadyC. Unless, of course, it's in a situation where the Spirit's telling you NOT to. He would have His reasons for doing so, but I don't believe it would be b/c it's wrong of us to do so. (If that made any sense at all !) If it's verbally, I would go with what a friend of mine says: when we become Christians, we give up our right to be treated right. That's not to say we become doormats, but rather, we leave to God what is HIS right to defend: us! When we are mistreated, misjudged, misrepresented, I think our main concern is not ourselves, but how Christ is (or is not) living His life through us. Jesus suffered when others mistreated Him because of His love for them! I know it sounds a bit idealistic, but I think the suffering we share with Christ as Paul talks about in Philippians is to love in that same way. We hurt for the people who mistreat us because we know it's the hurt in them causing them to do it. And if asked for a show of hands of people who do this on a continuous basis, I would be sitting on mine! I'm pressing towards, not reached the mark ! hhhmmmm.....i guess either verbal or physical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted April 24, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Yes, you have a right to defend yourself when attacked. The question is, how far do you take "self defense". Once defense becomes a first-strike offense situation is when it gets in a gray area. no question about it, make sure the attacker is dead. thats how far you take it. Dead man can't testify against you. Shalom, I guess you don't watch CSI. Dead men can certainly testify against you!! It's called "evidence" ! CSI is uhmm Hollywood, fantasy.... its not real! i have been in a REAL CSI lab, and no the dead men cannot testify against you. Evidence could be used, but the last i checked, the consitution gives the accused the right to face and question their accuser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK202002 Posted April 24, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 how did I reply 3 times? silly computer. Ok, a scenerio. My folk want me to start packing. I can't shoot anybody! I mean, for real! I just felt so wierd driving around with a 38 in my car. My mom, dad and little sister all strongly believe in self defense. So far I've found more scriptural evidence of letting God defend me, instead of defending myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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