jesusson Posted June 19, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 436 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/08/1971 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I am sorry but can you rephrase that please. I am having hard time understanding you. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyr Posted June 20, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1969 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 I think it's absurd and unBiblical to state that modern medicine is for ignorant people and unbelievers. On the contrary, I see it as an act of God's grace that He has supplied mankind with the wisdom and giftedness of healing. To denounce the virtue of medicine is just one step closer to L. Ron Hubbard's cultish belief. Just look in the Bible when the spiritual gift of healing was used in bulk(for lack of a better term). It was to show that Jesus Christ's and the apostle's message was truthful. Toward the latter part of the apostle's ministries, it is seemingly apparent that the gift of healing was no longer being used by them. If not, then there are numerous friends and acquaintances of Paul, as well as Paul himself, that had "become ignorant or unbelievers" since they had to resort to modern medicine(Paul instructing Timothy to take some wine for his stomach) or prayers which God chose to answer no(Paul's "thorn in the flesh"). Having said all this, there are some illnesses that are caused directly by sin. May we never assume this is the case the majority of the time. It wasn't in the Bible, and it most probably isn't now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted June 20, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2003 Good post martyr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 20, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Martyr, Awesome post!! Actually Booch said doctors were for the faithless and ignorant. Hmmmm, just look at the Apostle Paul on the island of Malta in Acts 28. The scripture records that he healed the father of Publius using supernatural power. However in verse 9 the rest of the sick came and were treated with physical medicines. The Greek word used is different from supernatural healing and applies to medicine/therapeutics. So, who was using medical knowledge to cure the sick - well Dr. Luke, of course. He was Paul's companion there as well as the author of the book. I guess I'll take my place next to Dr. Luke as faithless and ignorant. Clearly, all of the Master's children are going to cry out to Him when they are sick or suffering. We should all be examining our hearts and crucifying the flesh where that familiar sin keeps recurring. We serve an awesome God who listens and answers prayers. Sometimes that means healing. Sometimes just like with the Apostle, He answers, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Jesusson, I was just making a joke about recipes. Some of our brothers and sisters feels they have arrived with perfect knowledge. They have God all figured out. Of course, in their boasting their true fear and ignorance shows through. - Dr. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted June 20, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 20, 2003 Didn't he give us gifts and talents to be used for the good of others? We need teachers. We need mechanics. We need doctors. We need firefighters. We need garbage men. We need each other. God gave us each other....so we might work that together for His glory and for each other's good. There's no mystery here... The dangers of television is that we all grew up watching "magic"... Superman flies into the sunset; the Fairy Godmother taps her magic wand and Cinderella instantly transforms; the Hulk becomes a super hero just in the nick of time......doing amazing feats. We expect God to compete with these cartoon characters and tap His wand and work His magic. Then remember..."Bewitched"? Twitch of the nose and presto! Folks...our minds have been conditioned into expecting instant gratification and without any sacrifice on our parts... Think about it....Jesus fed a multitude but they wanted to crown him King since he could apparently feed them with ease. Are we following the same pattern...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusson Posted June 20, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 436 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/06/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/08/1971 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Jesusson, I was just making a joke about recipes. Some of our brothers and sisters feels they have arrived with perfect knowledge. They have God all figured out. Of course, in their boasting their true fear and ignorance shows through. - Dr. Steve OPPPS Sorry I didnt get you :upsided: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted June 21, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Dear Cat, AWESOME post!!! SO SO insightful! Absolutely true. There is a segment in today's Americanized church that see God for what He can do for them. Its always about all the things God wants to give us. Make us healthy, wealthy and wise. Then you pick up the Bible and read in James that this life involves testing and suffering. Very different than the rose colored "God wants to make your life good" theology. - Steve PS You know since we're friends and all, you wouldn't mind if I lifted some of your material. No copyright violations or law suits between friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Medical break throughs, pain killers, medications, all are a gift of God's mercy. But only for the faithless and ignorant (which most of us are at some level, myself included). Boochie, Statements that have no scriptural support and make you sound ignorant and dumb. I think its time believers learn good biblical exegesis skills, read their Bibles, and open their eyes to the world around them. If God truly gifted a believer with the gift of healing today then its time they put it to use. Go to Texas Children's Hospital in Houston, TX and heal those precious little children suffering from cancer. They are innocent angels who are neither faithless nor ignorant. If you really have the gift of healing and do not do so makes you a monster. - Dr. Steve YA KNOW--STEVE------those are the same words spoken to me by a baptist pastor in my own home; {"IF" you believe in healing--- go to the hospital & empty it of all the sick} these words were followed by----"YOU & YOUR WIFE ARE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS"-----DO you have any idea HOW much that HURT??????? especially since we had only been saved for less than a year-----DO you have any idea how devastating that could have been to such babes in CHRIST???????? this MO--RON--even told us "IF" we believed in healing so much we should drink poison & handle rattlesnakes--------- I have stated before that i know there are needs of both medicines for healings as well as healings by GOD'S WORD----- FOR either side to be so "dogmatically arrogant" as to proclaim their view is the only one possible & the other is {ignorant--dumb-or-stupid}is just slightly foolish-----seemingly learned men {& women} of higher academic achievements become a hindrance to their own profession as well as to the kingdom of GOD & HIS WORD by their continual assault on individual beliefs or practices-----Kind-a- -like Festus said to Paul in acts.26.vs.24-------Paul, much learning doth make thee mad-------Perhaps one day all this speculation will pass out of "style" & we shall all finally have a perfect mind--that of the LORD-JESUS-YESHUA---AND a changed heart---one of flesh---hopefully one that would rather die than offend a brother or see him in any type of pain,distress or ridicule-------- {Gary} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journey Posted July 6, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1970 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Gary, Bottom line. There are those who believe that divine health is our right just like forgiveness of sin. Yet they get sick and die just like the rest of us. There are those who claim to have the gift of healing just like Christ and the Apostles. Yet, when precious believers are turned away sick they blame them for secret sin and unbelief. Then those precious brothers and sisters come to my office and I am with them to the end. Do you know how many times I have heard this story..."The Church was so attentive and visted me praying over me, annointing me, casting out demons of sickness...but as soon as I did not get well...where was the pastor, evangelist, healer.......GONE!!!" I worked at Texas Children's Hospital. I spent day after day caring for these angels with cancer. Innocence. Pure faith. To not use that "gift" and heal them is evil plain and simple. Of course, the real reason is not because they won't heal them....its because they can't. The gift of healing was used by God to validate His New Covenant message. It was not intended for the Church to live in divine health. Those that believe this have poorly interpreted the Scriptures and are not living in reality. Its for those who claim divine health to prove otherwise. They all eventually get sick and die just like the rest of us lowly humans. - Steve P.S. I am sorry to hear that the pastor treated you and your wife like that. That is wrong. There are many "shepherds" in our Churches who need to be tossed out. "Hey pastor, Col Sanders just called...you got the job. Now get out!" Unfortunately in the social networks some Churches become the pastors often wield considerable power against "outsiders" who question their actions. When my mom and dad where first married my mother almost died of penumonia. The pastor of their Church (a Baptist Church) said that God told him it was because they were not tithing enough. My dad punched the guy in the nose and has never been back to Church. In my weak moments I sometimes think about finding that guy. Just to have a little chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Gary, Bottom line. There are those who believe that divine health is our right just like forgiveness of sin. Yet they get sick and die just like the rest of us. There are those who claim to have the gift of healing just like Christ and the Apostles. Yet, when precious believers are turned away sick they blame them for secret sin and unbelief. Then those precious brothers and sisters come to my office and I am with them to the end. Do you know how many times I have heard this story..."The Church was so attentive and visted me praying over me, annointing me, casting out demons of sickness...but as soon as I did not get well...where was the pastor, evangelist, healer.......GONE!!!" I worked at Texas Children's Hospital. I spent day after day caring for these angels with cancer. Innocence. Pure faith. To not use that "gift" and heal them is evil plain and simple. Of course, the real reason is not because they won't heal them....its because they can't. The gift of healing was used by God to validate His New Covenant message. It was not intended for the Church to live in divine health. Those that believe this have poorly interpreted the Scriptures and are not living in reality. Its for those who claim divine health to prove otherwise. They all eventually get sick and die just like the rest of us lowly humans. - Steve P.S. I am sorry to hear that the pastor treated you and your wife like that. That is wrong. There are many "shepherds" in our Churches who need to be tossed out. "Hey pastor, Col Sanders just called...you got the job. Now get out!" Unfortunately in the social networks some Churches become the pastors often wield considerable power against "outsiders" who question their actions. When my mom and dad where first married my mother almost died of penumonia. The pastor of their Church (a Baptist Church) said that God told him it was because they were not tithing enough. My dad punched the guy in the nose and has never been back to Church. In my weak moments I sometimes think about finding that guy. Just to have a little chat. Steve--MY beloved BROTHER----I'LL go with you & help ya-hunt that jerk down--I'LL even punch him out for a while when you get tired!!!! Patsy's daddy & mom went to a {baptist church--same one we went to as kids & the one we lived a half a block from {after we got married--the one the pastor called us "devil-worshippers}---any how her dad got laid-off from work -way back there in the 50/s-had to pick-up coke-bottles on the side of the road--collected scrap-iron & sold it to the local junk yard just to put food on the table....--then the {DEACONS} from that fine-up-standing church showUP wanting his "TITHES"????????? "IF" i had been there I'D have chunked rocks at these --loving--caring-spiritual leaders-practioners of GOD'S WORD---her mom & dad NEVER went back to church again-----BOTH of them DIED--SICK--BUT SAVED--HALL--E-LU--JAH--!!! NO thanks to any religious MO--RONNN!!!!THAT is one reason why Patsy did an in-depth study on "tithing"& "PROVED" by GOD'S WORD--THE CHURCH isNOT under the "LAW"-{ANY LAW-} of "TITHING" she had to be settled in her own heart that IF you keep ONE-POINT-of the LAW -you are obligated to keep ALL the LAW--Which as we know canNOT be done--"EXcept by JESUS---RIGHT???---STEVE--BRO. I think i have stated before that I more than anyone else can UNderstand BOTH sides of the healing issue---people have prayed over me--anointed me with oil--fasted --prayed for me --YET -I'M STILL NOT healed--i have more pain{chronic}{i didNOT understand what that word meant TILL i became DISabled with post-polio-myletis-muscle-atrophy}--muscle-cramps--chronic weakness-migraine head-aches { which i have to go the the hospital emergency room for a shot of 100mg/s of demerol--50mg/s of finergan{demerol for the migraines--finergan so i don't get sick from the demerol}-EXhaustion-I take more pain-pills-muscle-relaxers--blood-thiners-cholestrol-pills-high-blood-pressure-pills {not to give it but to keep it low--Haaa}--- I have to keep nitroglycerin pills in my shirt pocket at all times--had a heart-attack because one of the little-stints { 4} they put in my heart closedUP---NO heart problems TILL the doctors messed with my heart-----I take more aspirins than bayer can make--{WELLLLL almost} my med bills every month go over $1,200 dollars per------my pharmacist just LOVES ME!!!!!---SO, what's the answer????? I don't KNOW-- BUT--I do KNOW JESUS as LORD & SAVIOUR---"THAT" gives me some "HOPE"-----I also KNOW there are charlatans in the {CHURCH}??????--I also KNOW there are people healed miraculously--NO medical reason for the SUDDEN seemingly IMPossible healing---- I'VE heard docs. on the news-that are just mystified by these healings & state : IT'S A MIRACLE"--NO other EXplanation------ I think i live in a pretty-well "normal???" state of {reality}--at least normal for ME----- STEVE--MY BROTHER--- I doNOT have any problems with doctors{at least the one that treats me anyhow} the only DISagreement i have with you is; you totally DIS-regard ANY possibility that GOD--JESUS-YESHUA- JUST might {STILL HEAL} TODAY-----THAT'S IT BRO. can't you concede just one little possibility that GOD can--HEAL TODAY?????? WE are BROTHERS STEVE & that is really a miracle in &/of it's self---don't ya-think--????soooooo----GOD-BLESS-YOU-STEVE-&-I-LOVE-YA-IN-THE-LORD-JESUS-YESHUA------------------------{Gary}-- :il: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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