hupo Posted May 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted May 12, 2007 Shalom Hupo, Yes. Floating Axe and I have been [on opposite sides] in very heated, very nasty threads about this subject. You can do a search here on Worthy and read, but I warn you, it's not edifying and 3 of them have been locked recently. I really encourage you to speak to Dor about this, I believe she will show you the truth from Scriptures which is what you need. You know Vickilynn, Whatever the heated debate was about ( and I have yet to find out ) we can all learn how to discuss things without shooting missiles at each other. I know, I get that way sometimes. This is precisly a place we can learn how to fellowship with each other even from opposite sides, that is, if we let the Holy Spirit be a part of the discussion I'll take my chances with the Spirit, it's a sure bet, isn't it? Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted May 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted May 12, 2007 Couple of days now since I bumped into something called "Baptism with the Holy Ghost" I googled it and found it was a big controversy issue. I must admit, I have never heard of this before and still am in the dark about it, or why it is such a controversy. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject? Hope this is not a "pandora's box" Churches teach difference viewpoints here Some teach that this doesn't apply today as we are filled with the holy spirit at conversion. They believe the signs,healings etc.. gifts were only for the apostles for the early spreading of the gospel. They view the perfect in the following verse as the completion of the bible. 1 Cor 13: 8-10 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. The filling of the spirit is often viewed as their obedience to God. i.e.To have a more spirit filled life, Obey God. The practice of being slain in the spirit is also often not approved of. One of their arguments here is that no one in the bible fell backwards when being filled with the spirit, only those who are enemies of God. Others teach it as two separate anointings. They believe that the spiritual gifts are still in existance today.See verse below Mark 16: 17-18( some of the earliest manuscripts do not contain this portion of scripture) He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well These are usually the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. They regularly use tongues, filling of the spirit, slain in the spirit and holy laughter as evidence they are filled with the spirit. First, thanks for your input Natt I'm begining to get some idea of this "terrible" topic. As for the heated arguments I hear about..... Didn't God tell us there were two commandments to be fulfilled? (Matt 22) "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. " Any argument that doesn't include these two verses, cannot be a God based argument Now, I think we can go on discussing the topic..... Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted May 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted May 12, 2007 First, thanks for your input Natt I'm begining to get some idea of this "terrible" topic. As for the heated arguments I hear about..... Didn't God tell us there were two commandments to be fulfilled? (Matt 22) "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. " Any argument that doesn't include these two verses, cannot be a God based argument Now, I think we can go on discussing the topic..... Blessings Thanks Hupo!!! Your insight and wisdom is keen! When I first read your post, I was a little dumbfounded. You've never heard of the baptism of the Holy Spirit??? I'm Baptist, and I've heard of it. (Baptist are very much against that sort of thing!) But then I thought that the reason I've heard of it is b/c we (humans) try to attack anything that goes against our beliefs. Baptists are strong against anything charismatic. So if a church is not strongly for it or against it, sense would dictate that they probably wouldn't talk about it. As far as baptism of the Holy Spirit, I would say (and I don't think charismatics would argue) that I have the Holy Spirit living within me, and I have never gone through an experience where I "baptised in the Holy Spirit". Should I have had that? I honestly don't know. Is it essential for salvation? I would say no. Would my life here on earth be better if I was? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, I would say I don't know. My job is to obey the Holy Spirit in wherever He leads, and learn God's Word to the best of my ability. If the Spirit is leading you to be baptised in Him, go for it! If He's not, maybe there's something else He wants you to learn by your curiosity in this matter. I think He brought it to your attention for a reason. Your job is to learn what He wants you to do b/c of it! Have fun in your search, and I thank you again for your post about loving. In His Grace, Isaiah Well, Isaiah... being Jewish, and Israeli, there were times I didn't know about Yeshua either. But as you say, God has His reasons for our lives turning out the way they do. I'll tell you, I felt like I was walking in a mine field after the first reactions I got on this topic. I had no idea it was this explosive..... I like your honesty as to where you are with this issue. It has cleared a few more bits in this puzzle. Yes, obeying the Holy Spirit is wise advice and I pray for the ability to do that. Blessings Isaiah. You are an encouragement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Couple of days now since I bumped into something called "Baptism with the Holy Ghost" I googled it and found it was a big controversy issue. I must admit, I have never heard of this before and still am in the dark about it, or why it is such a controversy. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject? Hope this is not a "pandora's box" This is a really good question -- one every believer should ask. Unfortunately its more of a live hand grenade on some boards, and it has caused all kinds of trouble like church splits, etc. I would recommend doing a Bible Study with A LOT of prayer on the Holy Spirit and His role in the Christian's life. There are plenty of Bible study tools online if you don't have access at home. You might want to check out this site: RBC.net Discovery Series Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted May 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2007 You know Vickilynn, Whatever the heated debate was about ( and I have yet to find out ) we can all learn how to discuss things without shooting missiles at each other. I know, I get that way sometimes. This is precisly a place we can learn how to fellowship with each other even from opposite sides, that is, if we let the Holy Spirit be a part of the discussion I'll take my chances with the Spirit, it's a sure bet, isn't it? Blessings Shalom Hupo, I do know that you are wise and sensitive to the Holy Spirit, so you won't have any problem. I hate to see these type of things and I feel it grieves Jesus. I was just trying to spare you. And yes, I know your head is better used to discern and understand the things of G-d. I wasn't saying that you could not handle it, I was just posting out of sisterly concern for you, but I see that it is not needed. Go ahead, ask whomever you wish, I'm sure you'll find what you need. I'm sorry I went out on a limb and tried to spare you some of the ugliness that I've seen about this topic. I won't do that again. You are certainly capable of taking care of yourself. G-d bless you Hupo, you are a wonderful brother and so precious to the L-rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted May 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted May 13, 2007 First, thanks for your input Natt I'm begining to get some idea of this "terrible" topic. As for the heated arguments I hear about..... Didn't God tell us there were two commandments to be fulfilled? (Matt 22) "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. " Any argument that doesn't include these two verses, cannot be a God based argument Now, I think we can go on discussing the topic..... Blessings Thanks Hupo!!! Your insight and wisdom is keen! When I first read your post, I was a little dumbfounded. You've never heard of the baptism of the Holy Spirit??? I'm Baptist, and I've heard of it. (Baptist are very much against that sort of thing!) But then I thought that the reason I've heard of it is b/c we (humans) try to attack anything that goes against our beliefs. Baptists are strong against anything charismatic. So if a church is not strongly for it or against it, sense would dictate that they probably wouldn't talk about it. As far as baptism of the Holy Spirit, I would say (and I don't think charismatics would argue) that I have the Holy Spirit living within me, and I have never gone through an experience where I "baptised in the Holy Spirit". Should I have had that? I honestly don't know. Is it essential for salvation? I would say no. Would my life here on earth be better if I was? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, I would say I don't know. My job is to obey the Holy Spirit in wherever He leads, and learn God's Word to the best of my ability. If the Spirit is leading you to be baptised in Him, go for it! If He's not, maybe there's something else He wants you to learn by your curiosity in this matter. I think He brought it to your attention for a reason. Your job is to learn what He wants you to do b/c of it! Have fun in your search, and I thank you again for your post about loving. In His Grace, Isaiah Isaiah, i am baptist too but have a different understanding of the baptism of the HS. this occurs when you are saved, the HS comes into you and lives in you. The charismatics believe that it doesn't happen til your baptized and when it happens you get a gift from it. Well i can say i haven't hit the floor and done the holy roller thing, nor have i had some mystical happening either. I dont' expect one. What i do know is you get the HS when your saved and if you listen to him you find that you have a gift imparted to you. Baptism just testifies to the inward change of the christian, it holds no power or grants no powers or gifts. i think it was peter that asked if the Gentiles practiced johns baptism or christianitys baptism and they said they did neither but they had the HS dwelling in them. He then baptized believers that already had the HS in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2007 Isaiah, i am baptist too but have a different understanding of the baptism of the HS. this occurs when you are saved, the HS comes into you and lives in you. The charismatics believe that it doesn't happen til your baptized and when it happens you get a gift from it. Well i can say i haven't hit the floor and done the holy roller thing, nor have i had some mystical happening either. I dont' expect one. What i do know is you get the HS when your saved and if you listen to him you find that you have a gift imparted to you. Baptism just testifies to the inward change of the christian, it holds no power or grants no powers or gifts. i think it was peter that asked if the Gentiles practiced johns baptism or christianitys baptism and they said they did neither but they had the HS dwelling in them. He then baptized believers that already had the HS in them. I have taken my studies to these same grounds. ... 3xR0c|<stAr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted May 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Couple of days now since I bumped into something called "Baptism with the Holy Ghost" I googled it and found it was a big controversy issue. I must admit, I have never heard of this before and still am in the dark about it, or why it is such a controversy. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject? Hope this is not a "pandora's box" In ACTS 1:5 & 8 specifically states that only the apostles would have the baptism of the Holy Spirit- but read all of this chapter of ACTS 8:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted May 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Isaiah, i am baptist too but have a different understanding of the baptism of the HS. this occurs when you are saved, the HS comes into you and lives in you. The charismatics believe that it doesn't happen til your baptized and when it happens you get a gift from it. Well i can say i haven't hit the floor and done the holy roller thing, nor have i had some mystical happening either. I dont' expect one. What i do know is you get the HS when your saved and if you listen to him you find that you have a gift imparted to you. Baptism just testifies to the inward change of the christian, it holds no power or grants no powers or gifts. i think it was peter that asked if the Gentiles practiced johns baptism or christianitys baptism and they said they did neither but they had the HS dwelling in them. He then baptized believers that already had the HS in them. I have taken my studies to these same grounds. ... 3xR0c|<stAr I am what you may call charismatic, and I don't believe the way you have portrayed. I believe the Holy Spirit comes in and lives in you at salvation. Absolutely. He teaches and reveals truth to you, and reveals sin in your life, and helps you clean it up. But there comes a time when one yields over fully to the Holy Spirit's control. (Most people don't give total control to Him at salvation.) At that time, He comes in and fills you to overflowing with His empowering presence, gifting you for the tasks ahead that He is calling you to...it's called anointing. Of the many gifts, one or several is your lot! Tongues will come, but not always at first, but it is the most readily noticeable gift...which is why it gets a lot of attention. It doesn't warrant all that attention for there are other useful and wonderful tools that the Lord blesses us with! Oh, and btw...Eli, you've got your bible story mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted May 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 13, 2007 Couple of days now since I bumped into something called "Baptism with the Holy Ghost" I googled it and found it was a big controversy issue. I must admit, I have never heard of this before and still am in the dark about it, or why it is such a controversy. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject? Hope this is not a "pandora's box" In ACTS 1:5 & 8 specifically states that only the apostles would have the baptism of the Holy Spirit- but read all of this chapter of ACTS 8:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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