If God couldn't forgive Judas for betraying Jesu

[eric]

A good point indeed, I have four different versions of the text. Two say he repented and two say he regretted, the latter IMO would be nearer to the point.

Just a thought. cheers.

eric

[wordsower]

Look, We are supposed to reason together, not tear eachother's head off. I thought that Judas was saved for along time until I studied it out myself. I am convinced that he was, as Jesus called him, the son of perdition, and He said he was chosen as such from the foundation of the world.

Seeing as how God knows the end from the beginning He knows who is saved before they ever get saved, it is still our choice but He knows it before we choose it. He knew Judas' choice and therefore Judas was never saved. It's not so much OSAS, it's saved vs. lost. We are one or the other and our names are written before the foundation of the world and then they are blotted out when we choose to reject the Holy Spirit, which is precisely what Judas did. He knew truth, He heard it, lived it and rejected it.

Now each can have their own opinion, Judas didn't repent to God, Ipersonally believe that he realized he was doomed and hung himself out of fear and shame and no where else to go, and scripture says 12 disciples, but later another is added, can't recall which one but there ended up 12 and then lots more, me being one of them.

Blessings, love you all!!

I'm done.

[CWJ]

Mmmmmm...this is becoming very interesting. Look at these verses:

Matt 10:4.."Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him."

Matt 12:31.."Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

"All manner of sin"...shall be forgiven.

John 12:4.."Then saith one of his disciples, Judas iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,...(5)....Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?...(6)....This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a theif, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."

mmmmm.....

John 17:2...."As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.....(3)....And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

John 17:12.."While I was with them in the world, I kept them in my name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Judas was lost from the get-go I think. He was never given by God.

Jude 24..."Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling.........."

[His son]

Judas went back to those he colaborated with in his betrayal, and tried to reverse his action. He didn't go to God, and confess His sin, ask for forgiveness, and then truly repent, have a change of heart, mind, and life style. He relied totally on his flesh, and therefore he had not peace at all and hung himself. God would have had no trouble forgiving him but he did everything his way.

[Guest LadyC]

Look, We are supposed to reason together, not tear eachother's head off. I thought that Judas was saved for along time until I studied it out myself. I am convinced that he was, as Jesus called him, the son of perdition, and He said he was chosen as such from the foundation of the world.

Seeing as how God knows the end from the beginning He knows who is saved before they ever get saved, it is still our choice but He knows it before we choose it. He knew Judas' choice and therefore Judas was never saved. It's not so much OSAS, it's saved vs. lost. We are one or the other and our names are written before the foundation of the world and then they are blotted out when we choose to reject the Holy Spirit, which is precisely what Judas did. He knew truth, He heard it, lived it and rejected it.

Now each can have their own opinion, Judas didn't repent to God, Ipersonally believe that he realized he was doomed and hung himself out of fear and shame and no where else to go, and scripture says 12 disciples, but later another is added, can't recall which one but there ended up 12 and then lots more, me being one of them.

Blessings, love you all!!

I'm done.

nobody's biting anyone's head off. but it would help if you'd read the last post i made, detailing all the scriptures on the subject.

yes judas was chosen to be the betrayer. yes God has foreknowledge of all things to come since the beginning of creation. Jesus is the word of God and was with God at the creation of the world. nobody's disputing that.

however, knowing that Jesus chose Judas long before judas was born, judas was also chosen to be an apostle, was ordained by God to cast out demons. study it again. i posted all the scriptures. Judas was "saved", although that term was not used at that period of time. and then Christ gave him the morsel that allowed Satan to enter into him. and THEN judas fell because of his transgression.

i still don't understand how people can take something so simple, so clearly written in black and white, and make it so darn complicated.

[eric]

quote.

Look, We are supposed to reason together, not tear each other's head off

Well WS, everyone has a right to their own interpretation, but I dont recall any one tearing anyone elses head off. This is one of those treadmill topics. It keeps on going round and round. Any way I'm off the the roundabout on this thread now before the pies start flying.

Have a nice day in the word guys and gals.

eric

[CWJ]

however, knowing that Jesus chose Judas long before judas was born, judas was also chosen to be an apostle, was ordained by God to cast out demons. study it again. i posted all the scriptures. Judas was "saved", although that term was not used at that period of time. and then Christ gave him the morsel that allowed Satan to enter into him. and THEN judas fell because of his transgression.

i still don't understand how people can take something so simple, so clearly written in black and white, and make it so darn complicated.

What was Judas "saved" from? If you think he wound up in eternal damnation. And God knew beforehand the outcome, how can you say he was "saved' for awhile even?

Matt 19:25.." When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, who then can be SAVED ?"

Looks like they did have that term at that period of time.

What if Judas, (being in heart a thief), never participated in casting out demons and such?

Scripture doesn't tell us he did.

What if being un-saved all along he just kept the money, and "looked" like he was part of the team?

It's so very possible to think that, as scripture only tells us the bad about Judas.

mmmm?

[Guest LadyC]

however, knowing that Jesus chose Judas long before judas was born, judas was also chosen to be an apostle, was ordained by God to cast out demons. study it again. i posted all the scriptures. Judas was "saved", although that term was not used at that period of time. and then Christ gave him the morsel that allowed Satan to enter into him. and THEN judas fell because of his transgression.

i still don't understand how people can take something so simple, so clearly written in black and white, and make it so darn complicated.

What was Judas "saved" from? If you think he wound up in eternal damnation. And God knew beforehand the outcome, how can you say he was "saved' for awhile even?

Matt 19:25.." When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, who then can be SAVED ?"

Looks like they did have that term at that period of time.

What if Judas, (being in heart a thief), never participated in casting out demons and such?

Scripture doesn't tell us he did.

What if being un-saved all along he just kept the money, and "looked" like he was part of the team?

It's so very possible to think that, as scripture only tells us the bad about Judas.

mmmm?

judas was given the authority to cast out demons, by Christ, and was counted among the apostles. perhaps you don't understand that God does not give authority to cast out demons, heal the sick, etc, to those who are not "saved". so whether or not he actually participated, which i believe he did, is irrelevant. God granted him the authority to do so.

again, i don't understand why people try so hard to make something so simple so complicated. why not take scripture at it's word, instead of trying to add all this conjecture into the mix?

[SisterT-Enduring2TheEnd]

judas was given the authority to cast out demons, by Christ, and was counted among the apostles. perhaps you don't understand that God does not give authority to cast out demons, heal the sick, etc, to those who are not "saved". so whether or not he actually participated, which i believe he did, is irrelevant. God granted him the authority to do so.

again, i don't understand why people try so hard to make something so simple so complicated. why not take scripture at it's word, instead of trying to add all this conjecture into the mix?

Why not, indeed! Scripture does tell us much about Judas; the question is will we accept what it says. I have no problem with what Scripture says about Judas being thief, about Judas betraying Jesus or even him being called the son of perdition. But we must also take into account what other things were said about him, like this passage for instance:

Mark 6:7-13 KJV

(7)  And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

(8)  And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse;

(9)  But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.

(10)  And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into a house, there abide till ye depart from that place.

(11)  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.

(12)  And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

(13)  And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

They, THE TWELVE that Jesus called, went out and THEY, THE TWELVE, preached that men should repent and THEY, THE TWELVE, cast out many devils and healed those who were sick. NOWHERE in that passage does it even HINT that Judas was EXCLUDED from this. It clearly says the TWELVE disciples. And who were "The Twelve"?

Mark 3:13-19 KJV

(13)  And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him.

(14)  And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

(15)  And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

(16)  And Simon he surnamed Peter;

(17)  And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

(18)  And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite,

(19)  And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into a house.

Indeed, LadyC. Why not just take Scripture for what it says?

[Rick]

however, knowing that Jesus chose Judas long before judas was born, judas was also chosen to be an apostle, was ordained by God to cast out demons. study it again. i posted all the scriptures. Judas was "saved", although that term was not used at that period of time. and then Christ gave him the morsel that allowed Satan to enter into him. and THEN judas fell because of his transgression.

i still don't understand how people can take something so simple, so clearly written in black and white, and make it so darn complicated.

What was Judas "saved" from? If you think he wound up in eternal damnation. And God knew beforehand the outcome, how can you say he was "saved' for awhile even?

Matt 19:25.." When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, who then can be SAVED ?"

Looks like they did have that term at that period of time.

What if Judas, (being in heart a thief), never participated in casting out demons and such?

Scripture doesn't tell us he did.

What if being un-saved all along he just kept the money, and "looked" like he was part of the team?

It's so very possible to think that, as scripture only tells us the bad about Judas.

mmmm?

Who were the apostles?

Mt.10:2-4, Mk.3:16-18 Lk.6:14-16, Acts 1:13

Simon (aka Peter)

Andrew

James

John

Philip

Bartholomew

Thomas

Matthew

James (son of Alphaeus)

Judas (James' brother)

Simon (Zeolotes)

Judas (Iscariot) ( Who would be replaced by Matthias.)

12 in total. 13 if you add Matthias.

" They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have no doubt continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19.

Concerning Judas Iscariot, Jesus said,

" Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you twelve ( 12) , and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon, for he it was he that should betray Him, being one of the twelve (12)". John 6:70-71.

" That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots , and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven ( 11) apostles. Acts 1:25-26.

Judas's position as an apostle was removed, and he was replaced by Matthias. Or else Matthias would have become the 13th apostle, which isnt so.

According to :

" And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. " Rev. 21:14.

Not 13 !.

Not that it will matter to some. But maybe I should have typed it in red letters and caps to make it more convincing. No! , I'll just be content with the truth of the matter.

Rick