LossForWords Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 857 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/04/1981 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Granted God's love will always be with us...however, by free will we can remove ourselves from his grace. Yeah. Christ gave himself as a sacrifice so we would no longer have to sacrifice in order to obtain forgiveness. Also, so we could go directly to him through prayer when we did sin, we no longer had to go through a priest to be forgiven of our sins. We do HAVE to ask for forgiveness though. And whether we are already a Christian or not, if we sin, we have to confess and ask for forgiveness. Do you really think God will allow a "Christian" into Heaven just because he prayed a sinner's prayer at the age of 5 and then went on to commit a lifetime full of sin...that's insane! I have more respect for God than to think I can say a little prayer one time and then go on the commit sinful things and still think I'm going to be allowed into Heaven just because once a long, long time ago I was "saved." I pray everyday for any sin I may have commited that would hurt my walk with God, and hurt my witness to others...yeah, I may still sin every now and then...that's human...but I still HAVE to admit that I was wrong and ask for forgiveness if I am to expect to make it into Heaven. God won't blot your name out of the Book of Life, but you can take your name out...it all depends on the choices you make, and what you do after you make those choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugmando Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 114 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/06/1961 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hello ex, Well being full of sin man has a problem, he is seperated from God because as we know God has no part of sin. The relationship of Creator and His Creation is marred by and because of sin. Jesus solved that problem by His sacrifice at Calvary, He being sinless took on sin and paid the price for sin by the shedding of His Blood as payment for sin. His act alone supplied redemption for all of mankind. This Act of Love is undeserved by all of mankind (I do not deserve it)but by God's Merciful Grace it is extended to all of mankind to accept as a free gift. That is why it is such a unforgiveable act to reject or to walk away from such a Wonderful Free Gift of Grace and Mercy. But now as LadyC has explained losing and snatching in her post I must admit I have never considered this like that and I think I must really mull this over. Hmmm. Very Interesting Still I believe I can choose to walk away from Grace, God is not Dictator nor Bully if I refuse or walk away from His Gift of Grace will He force me to accept? I think not Dugmando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted May 21, 2007 So...if you're saved, and you go out and knowingly, and pre-meditatingly murder your neighbor, and you don't ask for forgiveness from God and face up to the consequences then you still go to Heaven right?...that's just silly...of course your actions will determine whether you're saved or not! Guess it worked for David. After about a year he asked for God to restore the joy of his salvation, not his salvation. Oh, he had plenty of consequences, lost his child, his health, couldn't build the temple.....miserable existance, but God said he was a man after His own heart. The mercy of God is beyond some of your understanding. There is not one thing good enough you can do to be saved. Your best is as filthy rags, so how then can you place the fate of salvation on yourself? Whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved. No one can snatch you back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Hello ex, Well being full of sin man has a problem, he is seperated from God because as we know God has no part of sin. The relationship of Creator and His Creation is marred by and because of sin. Jesus solved that problem by His sacrifice at Calvary, He being sinless took on sin and paid the price for sin by the shedding of His Blood as payment for sin. His act alone supplied redemption for all of mankind. This Act of Love is undeserved by all of mankind (I do not deserve it)but by God's Merciful Grace it is extended to all of mankind to accept as a free gift. That is why it is such a unforgiveable act to reject or to walk away from such a Wonderful Free Gift of Grace and Mercy. But now as LadyC has explained losing and snatching in her post I must admit I have never considered this like that and I think I must really mull this over. Hmmm. Very Interesting Still I believe I can choose to walk away from Grace, God is not Dictator nor Bully if I refuse or walk away from His Gift of Grace will He force me to accept? I think not Dugmando actually sir you have pretty much touched grace. this is what it is. it is an act of mercy to mankind. By default we are all going to hell. just because we are natural sinners. Ezekiel 18:20 (King James Version) 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Because of God the father's justice and rightousness we are doomed. it is baby talk when people say that "God knows the heart ." God doesnt care about the heart. God cares about if you are presenting what he asked for. If God cared about the heart then He wouldn't of rejected Cain's sacrifice. Gen 4:5 the only expression of His mercy is sending Jesus Christ. You don't walk away from salvation. It is a gift that you do not deserve. You do not control. You may literally stop reading and go back into the world but Jesus Christ will follow you wherever you are because you are "sealed."Ephesians 1:13 It's not about YOU walking away but about Jesus Christ abandoning YOU. People that are into losing salvation need to show abandonment of Christ or the Holy Spirit to a believer. You can walk away to the ends of the earth and flip your life upside down but Christ will follow and discipline you over and over until you shape up. Eph 1: 14 Which is (Holy Spirit) the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. it doesn't say that the Holy Spirit jumps in and out of you throughout your life. one time you were sealed (v13) and is with you til the end. But i respect your beliefs and wanted to see where you stood. You told me and i thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 If once saved always saved is true then perhaps someone can enlighten me concerning this scripture. Hbr 10:26 for if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins you have to read the rest of the verses. there is a comma at the end of v26. this is a hypothetical situation. notice on v28 that under Moses law the person was stoned to death by two or 3 witnesses (Deut 17:5) v29 goes into how God will discipline "His." v 31 says "31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" to confirm that when YOU're His...YOU're His. read Hebrews 12:3-9. keep and eye on v6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColleenLovesMischief Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,791 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/13/1977 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Okay...so are you guys trying to say that if someone was saved, and willfully turns from God. I'm talking someone turning to satanism,witchcraft,ect... What happens then? Are you saying he's still saved? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Okay...so are you guys trying to say that if someone was saved, and willfully turns from God. I'm talking someone turning to satanism,witchcraft,ect... What happens then? Are you saying he's still saved? What? if he is saved then turns on God, then according to scriptures He will discipline him. read post above yours. actually I bet He doesnt even get involved when we go astry. He lets us fall flat on our face so we can come crying back to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2007 i think i've answered this before.... in the other thread. but since you're asking again, salvation can't be LOST. to lose something is unintentional. your salvation can't be SNATCHED... to have something snatched from you means you have it stolen and it's totally out of your control. but one CAN walk away from the gift they've been given. they can harden their hearts towards God and cease to listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Shalom LadyC, Exactly. Salvation cannot be "lost" or "taken away", but it can be given up by the holder (us) if we refuse to abide in Jesus. John 15 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 It's not about YOU walking away but about Jesus Christ abandoning YOU. People that are into losing salvation need to show abandonment of Christ or the Holy Spirit to a believer. Romans 1:28 KJV: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; retain: means to keep what you already had. the consequence of not retaining God is that He turns them over to their reprobate mind... He removes the Holy Spirit from them. they have become apostate. read the chapter in context. it is clearly referring to those who KNEW God. not just who had some abstract thought that maybe there was some higher power... it says who KNEW God, and who did not RETAIN God. if we, as christians, harden are hearts against God completely, HE WILL withdraw His Spirit from us. without a doubt. but like i said previously, it ain't happenin' overnight, and nobody else in the world can point to someone and say "God has turned you over to your reprobate mind and blotted out your name in the book of Life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted May 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 read the chapter in context. it is clearly referring to those who KNEW God. not just who had some abstract thought that maybe there was some higher power... it says who KNEW God, and who did not RETAIN God. they "knew" of Gods existence. that does not mean they accepted God. An atheist knows who God is but he rejects God. Romans 1:21 says that they knew who God is but rather not glorify. These are the Romans. Paul is actually picking on the Roman empire and not Christians. v30 says they were "haters of God." It's not about YOU walking away but about Jesus Christ abandoning YOU. People that are into losing salvation need to show abandonment of Christ or the Holy Spirit to a believer. Romans 1:28 KJV: And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; retain: means to keep what you already had. the consequence of not retaining God is that He turns them over to their reprobate mind... He removes the Holy Spirit from them. they have become apostate. read the chapter in context. it is clearly referring to those who KNEW God. not just who had some abstract thought that maybe there was some higher power... it says who KNEW God, and who did not RETAIN God. if we, as christians, harden are hearts against God completely, HE WILL withdraw His Spirit from us. without a doubt. but like i said previously, it ain't happenin' overnight, and nobody else in the world can point to someone and say "God has turned you over to your reprobate mind and blotted out your name in the book of Life." what? he's talking about atheist or people who refuse to believe there is a God! Let me set it up v20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: There is no excuse for someone to say "there is no God" because we can clearly see it on our creation. v21 rejection of God by paganists v22 they (pagansists) thought they were wise v23 idolotary - instead of accepting ONE God they decided to worship man, birds, etc v24 God gave them up. not because they had the Holy Spirit but because of free will He cannot make us accept Him. v25 Paganists decided to worship idols instead of truth v26-27 This is talking about the sin that was caused in Rome. things that were happening there. a little history. v28 and even though they knew God existed and rejected Him. God moves on. has nothing to do with Holy Spirit leaving. Definately a great example of free will. but look i dont want to come off as arrogant. if you think that that is what scripture says then ok but consider what i just presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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