A Little Question

[apothanein kerdos]

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence.

I think this is often a misunderstanding among people. Whenever our brain leads us away from God based on supposed evidence, I would always advocate that you are actually taking an illogical approach to evaluating the evidence, that is, being irrational. Our mind, when used properly, will always point us in the direction of God.

The mind was created for us to know God and to know our world, that is, to be rational human beings. The problem is, via the Fall of man, our minds have become corrupt, so often what appears rational is not rational when held up to reality.

Thus, your question should change from, "Why has God given me a brain to think, which only caused me to doubt my faith," to "why have I not explored Christian intellectual sources to see if there is an answer to my questions."

One good website that should have quite a few answers is Be Thinking. It is not a fluff website - there will probably be articles that go over your head, unless you have a background in philosophy and theology. That is okay though, because it will allow you to see how the Christian mind is being used.

Ultimately, I would love to talk about your premise for dismissing God's existence. If anything, even at a simple intellectual overview, we can conclude in the Deistic idea of God. That, of course, is at a minimum. If pressed further, we can discover the orthodox version of God.

If you like the website, then I can give you a whole list of books that will deal with some of the struggles you are going through.

[Motivated By Grace]

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence.

My answer is, "He didn't. God gave you the brain to worship and honor Him. saTan is the one that gave man-kind the choice to do otherwise... and that includes doubting His existance."

Edited June 1, 2007 by Motivated By Grace

[MorningGlory]

Then JESUS came in my life..please note,I DIDNT GO TO JESUS...HE CAME TO ME....and in 24 hours HE SAVED ME,FILLED ME WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT and CALLED ME TO PREACH...please note that THE BIBLE was a LOCKED BOOK to me...( I tried to read it before Jesus in my life and I just couldnt get it)

I didnt go Bible Schoool,but immediately I was preaching and people were getting saved,I was praying for the sick and several got healed,I prayed for new believers and they got filled with Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues too.....

That is not really a surprising confession. I am a member of an Evangelical Presbyterian church, and a major tennent is that all faith comes from God. Very hard for non members to grasp, and even harder still for leadership (Elders and Deacons). My wife is a deacon and it took her a very long time to make sense of it, I'm not so sure I have come to a good equilibrium, but in essence, it means that our salvation is not simply the result of our choice - God acts first in extending the invitation and providing us an opportunity to respond. Alternatively, "salvation does not depend upon our faltering human efforts but upon the mercy and power of God." (John Leith, An Introduction to the Reformed Tradition). In laymen's terms, I've heard it explained as God plucking people off a subway to hell. The flip side is, though not all would believe this I presume, once you have been saved, you cannot be unsaved.

You, a nonbeliever, are a member of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church??? May I ask WHY????

[Guest lynn05]

Ollkiller, it sounds like you are on a search for God. One of the wisest men who ever lived, King Soloman, believed in God, yet his brain did not make all the right choices . . . he did have too many wives, did he not? There is an aspect of a believer that is often overlooked, or maybe not enough people have experienced this. Sometimes it just does not seem like God is there, but then something happens in our lives when we know God is there and that he is in control. I do not think this can be explained scientifically, and the two times I experienced it in were the two times in my life when I was in such utter despair that I hope that I never experience it again. Yet, this was when God assured me in a very spiritual way, on another level than science can explain, that He is here and is in control! The place I was in was in such a place of despair and yet I never felt closer to God and KNEW with all my heart that He exists. You see, my 20-year-old son was at death's door, and all the top doctors were scratching their brains and I could tell they were not sure if he would live. God took my son from an impossible situation and literally brought him back, even our scientists' most powerful antibiotics were not working, and I felt God's presence and assurance during this time of despair and hopelessnes. Ah, but you want to look at it scientifically. I can very much appreciate that. Why is it then when intellects claim that a certain part of the Old Testament must not be correct because there is no proof that a place existed or a person existed, that archeology suddenly proves them wrong after a new discovery? Why is it that hundreds of people saw Jesus after he arose from the dead, even though his side was pierced with a sword to make sure Jesus was dead after an excruciating Roman crucifixion? How can it be that this Jesus so perfectly fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament? I do hear where you are coming from, though, because there are so many disagreements in interpretation of passages that we decide that it must not be true because it does not make since to our brains. But then one day it clicks, and it all makes sense. I encourage you on your search for God and I will be praying for you! He came from his heavenly thrown to save us from our sins by dying the death we should of had--what a gift! And what a gift it was when my son knew he might die and yet told me that he was at peace with it because he belonged to God!

[apothanein kerdos]

You, a nonbeliever, are a member of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church??? May I ask WHY????

Because I didn't put myself in the nonbeliver group. Apparently they don't ask, they just judge around here. Either that, or I am clueless about where to find all the profile thingys.

Other than that, I grew up Dutch Reformed, got three degrees from the Catholic University of America, had an orthdox Jew for a PhD dissertation director (I work with yeast, so the "leavening agent" around passover is ironic), spent 5 years in San Francisco looking for anything that remotely passed as a church, then wound up in the heart of Baptist country--20,000 member church-in-a box congregations here in Texas. Left a future church in a box (we moved into a new building and couldn't find our kids the first sunday because the church doubled in size, so left), and then stumbled into the EPC church plant. I also get invited to passover with our Jewish faculty ever year. I guess I've been around. The EPC plant was one of those long complicated God things that people like to hear about. When I was in Washington DC, we went to a big EPC church that was well established, bursting at the seems, but had no bells and whistles as church buildings go. As you may know, of the three big Presbyterian congregations, the EPC is the most conservative and left either PCA or PCUSA 20 years ago as they became more liberal. I liked that they are anti legalistic, but do not sugar coat the important things, trying to be gentle and feel good to people. Pretty much all meat all the time.

I just realized you're from Houston. Hee hee, our pastor is from Houston and drives by the area called teh "Baptoplex". I don't think our biggest church is as big as any in Houston, but I live close to Hagee's and Fanning's churchs. Never been, and don't remember which is which.

I was going to PM you, but I just noticed your changed status.

I'm assuming you teach at TCU or SMU?

[Anijen]

Right. I've taught about this for a bit and i want to see what other people's views are. I'll outline where i'm coming from as well. So

I was born a Catholic. I went to mass until i was 12 and then stopped going. I do not know if there is a God or not. If there is a God i believe if you are nice you go to heaven and if your bad you go to hell( i know very simple idea but i think it fits.) I have been raised by my parents to look at both sides of an topic and then take the side that i find reasonable.

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence.

Your views are greatly appreciated from both believers and non-believers. Slan Leat(that's goodbye in Irish).

This question has been asked in many different ways but one answer I have always liked and have felt comfortable with is, God will give enough evidence to keep our gray matter brains from scoffing, but not enough to take away the requirement of faith.

[Botz]

QUOTE(ollkiller @ May 31 2007, 10:44 AM)

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence

.

If G-d exists, then what he says about you is true.

You prefer darkness to light.

Your heart is desperately wicked.

There is no good in you.

Your heart/mind actually denies His existence.

You are blind

You have already been judged guilty and sentenced.

Your destiny is defeat and destruction.

Why would G-d want to help you out of this predicament? What are you to Him?

[Guest AV1611_USER]

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence

For the simple reason that human reason has been corrupted by sin.

[Rebmilc]

Right. I've taught about this for a bit and i want to see what other people's views are. I'll outline where i'm coming from as well. So

I was born a Catholic. I went to mass until i was 12 and then stopped going. I do not know if there is a God or not. If there is a God i believe if you are nice you go to heaven and if your bad you go to hell( i know very simple idea but i think it fits.) I have been raised by my parents to look at both sides of an topic and then take the side that i find reasonable.

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence.

Your views are greatly appreciated from both believers and non-believers. Slan Leat(that's goodbye in Irish).

Hi There ollkiller.

In some ways my upbringing was the same as yours I was bought up in a pentecostal family in the UK. I attended church untill I was 12, not because I was made to go but because that is what my family did. When I reached 12 I was told by my dad that it was time I made up my own mind about whether or not I continued to attend church. Things lookes a lot more exciting on the outside so I made the decision not to go anymore.

I became heavily involved in the occult and spent 8 years racing a motorcycle for team castrol in the late 60s and early 70s. They were hectic days, you could have any girl you wanted and I really thought that I had "Made It". However in early 74 I was involved in a terrible accident whilst racing, my family were all called together and told that I wouldn't live through the night. I remember waking up in hospital with tubes everywhere they could get them, collapsed lung, broken ribs, serious internal injuries, the lot. During that evening my uncle who was an assemblies of God pastor came to pray for me, I can still remember that prayer. He said "God, your not going to let this young man die because you have a plan and a purpose for his life". From that moment on I started to make a miraculous recovery which astounded the doctors and within 6 weeks I was back at work and back racing. Of course this left me with a lot of unanswered questions about God and I decided that I would undertake my own search for Him to see if he existed or not. Being heavily involved in the occult I was totally anti-Bible but I realised that I had to put aside all the things I had been taught, not listen to any side of the argument from any side, but just conduct my own search. I bought a Bible and asked God if He was there and if He was interested in me to reveal himself to me. Over a period of about a year He did just that and on the 25th Feburary 1975 at 7.45pm I asked Christ into my life. I am now 58 years old and preach around the local churches as well as being the director untill recently of a counter cult organisation.

I despair when I read some of the arguments put forward by the atheists on this forum who parrot others arguments (Like Dawkins who has become God to some of them) about why there is no God. The bottom line is if you are sincere and genuine and ask God to reveal himself to you He does and once He has no amount of these arguments will turn you away from Him because you know Him for yourself and have a personal relationship with him. That is why the history of the Church is full of martyrs who have died for their faith in God rather than deny Him, because he is so real to them.

God says that if you seek him with all your heart you will find him, but a wonderfull thing is that very often He finds us.

I wish you well in your search.

Neil.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Rebmilc

[ollkiller]

QUOTE(ollkiller @ May 31 2007, 10:44 AM)

Now my question is this. If the God of the Bible exists then why has he given me this brain that through reason and thinking leads me to dismiss the Bible. That is why would God (in the organised religion sense) give me a brain which leads me to dismiss his existence

.

If G-d exists, then what he says about you is true.

You prefer darkness to light.

Your heart is desperately wicked.

There is no good in you.

Your heart/mind actually denies His existence.

You are blind

You have already been judged guilty and sentenced.

Your destiny is defeat and destruction.

Why would G-d want to help you out of this predicament? What are you to Him?

Cheers for all the replies. Sorry for not getting back sooner. I shall give them all some thought. I will reply to this post though.

1. You prefer lightness to dark. No i don't.

2. Your heart is desperately wicked. No it is not and for you to judge my heart is way out of line.

3. There is no good in you. Again you don't know me. Way out of line.

4. Your heart/ mind actually denies his existence. I'm on a journey and am undecided.

5. You are blind. Again No.

6. You have already been judged guilty and sentenced. I'm not even going to respond to this.

Lastly why would god want to help me out of this prediciment. Well if i am one of God's creations made in his likeness then i would expect a little help in seeing the light. I don't know if your post was serious or not, if it is you have not helped me in any way. I'll try to respond to a few other posts later on. Later Dudes.