tsth Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2007 Thank you Hazard. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I know that suicide is a controversial issue even amongst believers. The Bible can be understood in various ways regarding this issue. I started studying this topic after my friends attempt to take his own life, to have answers to the "why"s of taking his life. I see only one person touched this subject so I will bring what I have found so far:- (this was written in another thread. Obviously many touched this topic here) It could be said that scripture is against suicide..... 1 Cor 6:20 "You are not your own, you are bought with a price..." and also..... Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder. " But what is murder? what is the difference between murder and killing? We kill plants and animals for food. Where do we draw the line, or rather, where does scripture draw the line? Suicide is not a new idea. The Bible records seven suicides. What drives people to suicide? Guilt, mental illness, depression, demonic possession, exhaustion, physical pain, revenge (Samson), stress, rejection, pride, shame, disgrace, fear, and allow me to add my own NGE (Not Good Enough) Jdg 9:52 And Abimelech came to the tower and fought against it and drew near to the door of the tower to burn it with fire. Jdg 9:53 And a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head and crushed his skull. Jdg 9:54 Then he called quickly to the young man his armor-bearer and said to him, "Draw your sword and kill me, lest they say of me, 'A woman killed him.'" And his young man thrust him through, and he died. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jdg 16:25 And when their hearts were merry, they said, "Call Samson, that he may entertain us." So they called Samson out of the prison, and he entertained them. They made him stand between the pillars. Jdg 16:26 And Samson said to the young man who held him by the hand, "Let me feel the pillars on which the house rests, that I may lean against them." Jdg 16:27 Now the house was full of men and women. All the lords of the Philistines were there, and on the roof there were about 3,000 men and women, who looked on while Samson entertained. Jdg 16:28 Then Samson called to the LORD and said, "O Lord GOD, please remember me and please strengthen me only this once, O God, that I may be avenged on the Philistines for my two eyes." Jdg 16:29 And Samson grasped the two middle pillars on which the house rested, and he leaned his weight against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other. Jdg 16:30 And Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines." Then he bowed with all his strength, and the house fell upon the lords and upon all the people who were in it. So the dead whom he killed at his death were more than those whom he had killed during his life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1Sa 31:4 Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and mis-treat me." But his armor-bearer would not, for he feared greatly. Therefore Saul took his own sword and fell upon it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1Sa 31:5 And when his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell upon his sword and died with him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2Sa 17:23 When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order and hanged himself, and he died and was buried in the tomb of his father. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1Ki 16:15 In the twenty-seventh year of Asa king of Judah, Zimri reigned seven days in Tirzah. Now the troops were encamped against Gibbethon, which belonged to the Philistines, 1Ki 16:16 and the troops who were encamped heard it said, "Zimri has conspired, and he has killed the king." Therefore all Israel made Omri, the commander of the army, king over Israel that day in the camp. 1Ki 16:17 So Omri went up from Gibbethon, and all Israel with him, and they besieged Tirzah. 1Ki 16:18 And when Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king's house and burned the king's house over him with fire and died, 1Ki 16:19 because of his sins that he committed, doing evil in the sight of the LORD, walking in the way of Jeroboam, and for his sin which he committed, making Israel to sin. 1Ki 16:20 Now the rest of the acts of Zimri, and the conspiracy that he made, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mat 27:3 Then when Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, Mat 27:4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." Mat 27:5 And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, this is quite a bit for one post so i'll stop here for now. I would appreciate your input on this subject Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2007 Here is a link to a site that describes 7 actual occurences of suicide in the bible, what the bible says about the value of life, and the biblical alternative to suicide http://www.christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y038.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Here is a link to a site that describes 7 actual occurences of suicide in the bible, what the bible says about the value of life, and the biblical alternative to suicide http://www.christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y038.html Thanks Erich This has turned out to be quite a study for me It seems to be a rather complex topic. I've been to several sites and they don't exactly agree with each other. I guess I will have to let the Spirit lead me on this (which would be the best way anyway.... ) Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2007 Grace to you, Hup, I believe that God wants us to live and not die. I believe that He came so that we may have life and have it more fully. I believe that He has given us life and He can take it away. All the rest of the hypothesis is tricky at best. We need to see what God has to say about life and it's value to Him. Especially in Christ then the picture becomes more clear because our focus is right and attuned to the will of God. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I've just opened a thread on suicide and now have found this one. I think I'll just join this one instead. The reason I opened the thread was because of a suicide attempt by my very good friend. It was touch and go for a while and now We are talking about it. He is not a believer (yet) and we discuss this almost daily now. So I opened that thread to sort-of study the topic and especially see what the Bible has to say on this subject. The following is what I have so far...... I know that suicide is a controversial issue even amongst believers. The Bible can be understood in various ways regarding this issue. My starting point was this verse......Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder. " But what is murder? what is the difference between murder and killing? We kill plants and animals for food. Where do we draw the line, or rather, where does scripture draw the line? Is there a difference between killing someone and killing oneself? Suicide is not a new idea. The Bible records seven suicides Jdg 9:52-54 Where Abimelech said: "Draw your sword and kill me, lest they say of me, 'A woman killed him.'" Jdg 16:25-30 Where Samson killed more Philistines in his death than he had killed during his life. 1Sa 31:4-5 Where King Saul took his own sword and fell upon it, and when his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell upon his sword and died with him. 2Sa 17:23 Where Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, and hanged himself 1Ki 16:15-20 Where Zimri, king of Tirtzah, saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the king's house and burned the king's house over him with fire and died Mat 27:3-5 Judas, who betrayed Yeshua, threw down the pieces of silver into the temple, departed, and went and hanged himself. Did all these people, kings and prophets mostly anointed by God, go to hell for committing suicide? What does scripture say of merciful killing? Is there such a thing? Love your neighbor as yourself..... what if I hate myself? Is this "love" relative or absolute? I don't have any clear cut answers and scripture comes with messages that are confusing..... I would like to have God's answers so that I can pass them on to my friend Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Grace to you, Hup, I believe that God wants us to live and not die. I believe that He came so that we may have life and have it more fully. I believe that He has given us life and He can take it away. All the rest of the hypothesis is tricky at best. We need to see what God has to say about life and it's value to Him. Especially in Christ then the picture becomes more clear because our focus is right and attuned to the will of God. Peace, Dave Thanks Dave I am moving to another thread on suicide rather than doubling up here It's at Suicide thread Hope I got that right Blessings (mods, as far as I'm concerned you can lock this thread, thanks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted July 31, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2007 I merged the topic from the General Forum called Suicide in with this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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