Polygamy

[firehill]

What you're inviting me to do is post all of Esther and then say "See?, Esther was a good girl". I can't prove the negative firehill. If you have an example of what you consider to be the strife due to Polygyny in Esther, please show it. But you should know that I will simply retreat to the point that anecdotal information unaccompanied with teaching in scripture is just background.

What I'm requesting you do is simply show this claim from scripture in context:

By the way, Esther. She was a Polygynist bride, a whole book gets written about her and she is the model of behavior. This is in the setting of being married to a PAGAN King.

My point is this: That Esther was married to a pagan king and a polygynist bride has nothing to do with wether or not women are to model such behavior. No one can take the story of Esther and say, see there ya go, go model her, marry a pagan king who is a polygamist. That's my point and it is so because that its not what the bible teaches.

[firehill]

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The context belongs to it's culture. Again, I'm not arguing against a cultural mentality.

Firehill,

I am confused, was it cultural for God to give wives to men? After all this is the Lord talking, not a cultural representative.

Yes, God dealt with man within man's culture. The issue is the same as slavery. Can you answer my question above? Who has authority over the husbands body in a marriage?

It is simply moraly wrong to enslave people or take on multiple wives for the purpose of having numerous sex objects. Now God used these cultural immoralities (as he still does in other existing cultures though NOW he's indeed called all to repentence having looked over man's ignorance) for good which is another story.

None, you were right. I was wrong!!! I understood where Sherman was coming from, providing this and that scripture, but I went further on a hunt for the truth...

Polygamy (as slavery) is moraly wrong! We NOW having been called to repentence can understand both as sin.

Acts 17

24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone

[firehill]

Helllllloooooooooo, anybody home?

Once a man is married to a woman who between the two has AUTHORITY over his physical body in regards to sexual relations? Anybody know?

[Lionroot]

Yes, God dealt with man within man's culture.

Is this an opinion, or does God say that somewhere? I seem to remember Him saying, remove the evil from among you.

The issue is the same as slavery.

objection: Opinion, and Irrelevant. Nice diversionary tactic though.

Can you answer my question above? Who has authority over the husbands body in a marriage?

Of course I can. As with all "answers" though, it must be understood within the full counsel of God. Scriptures generally agree. They are after all from the same God, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

It is simply moraly wrong to ...take on multiple wives for the purpose of having numerous sex objects.

It would be equally immoral ...take a single wife for the purpose of having a single sex object. Right? Is that what you think a wife is?

Now God used these cultural immoralities for good which is another story.

I'd love to hear it sometime.

None, you were right. Polygamy (as slavery) is moraly wrong!

Could you rephrase this, I am not at all clear to what your refer?

[Lionroot]

Once a man is married to a woman who between the two has AUTHORITY over his physical body in regards to sexual relations? Anybody know?

Yes , Abigail had authority over Davids body.

[None]

I have a question (especialy for None). Once a man is married to a woman who between the two has AUTHORITY over his physical body in regards to sexual relations? Anybody know?

There's no way to "divide" a man up, I'm sure you know that. One wife, the "first wife", would have that "privilege" and the other unfortunate wives, the lesser wives, would suffer with the unsaid title of "slave girl", having themselves lost rights over their own bodies.

If one were to abide by Levitical Laws in this issue, one better remember what Paul reminded us about that and that is: if you abide by one, you must abide by them all. I don't know a lot of females, in the US anyway, who'd accept that kind of Law system guiding their husband, particularly because it was also in favor of slavery and a slave is basically what they'll be willingly submitting to if they DO enter a marriage like that. If, God forbid, polygomy ever DID come into acceptance here in America, how long before the news of the unjust treatment of women is spread throughout the whole country and all people and, especially children, are warned and these self gratifying men are exposed for the perverts and slave drivers they are? Not long at all, in this speedy information age we live in today, I'm willing to bet.

As far as Esther goes:

She was forced into that position by the laws of that land. Her uncle was himself in error for putting her in that harem to begin with. It was God who made the situation work out for His greater good, as He always does. If a woman, coming from today's society, were to look closely at the way of life Esther was forced to endure, she would feel nothing but sorry for Esther and be glad never to have to suffer that type of lifestyle because of the advanced, more equalized laws she lives in today. No girl in their right mind would want to go backwards in time like that. Not one in control of who she's going to marry one day, anyway, and that can and should only be decided by a full grown woman, not a child under 18.

I'd never allow my little girl to enter into a harem; not even if she was promised "first wife".

When I was only a little preteen reading the story of Esther, I remember feeling deeply saddened for the women who were NOT selected as queen but lost their hopes of ever marrying a man of their choice and now being stuck in that sinful pagan king's harem. The image of the neglectful, unfair treatment of these "secondary" women always rang a bitter bell for me, even at that early age. As a little girl I knew it was wrong. My mother never even discussed it with me, this is something that can be figured out even by a child. I asked my little daughter what she would think if she was promised a wonderful lifestyle by a rich man but she would have to share him, she said exactly what I knew she would, "Ewwwww!!!!". That's all I needed to hear, not that I would have let her if she were in favor, not until she's 18(and my little girl wouldn't be having any of that there pervy stuff, oh no no no).<-----(yes, i DO have a motive, case anyone wondered)

[firehill]

Hello Firehill!

He seems to think that women of the future will return to polygomy.

1)Not in this day and age, not after viewing our history books, taking notes on the abuse women suffered when situations were left in the hands of men who only follow after their own pleasures, thinking themselves of far more importance than women, why would any of us EVER go back to that.

We progress not regress.

If we have a world wide economic colapse I could see it happening (even slavery on a world wide scale) but it would never excuse that it is a moral wrong. It is sin. I don't think that things will get that bad before the second coming.

2)If it's finacial - Boarding houses - roomates - mom and pop's place - anything but desperately trying to share one man with more than one women. Why? And how gross!! Ewww!

I'd rather starve to death, God knows me...That's just me though. I don't think God holds it against women who truely cannot take care of themselves.

[firehill]

Yes, God dealt with man within man's culture.

Is this an opinion, or does God say that somewhere? I seem to remember Him saying, remove the evil from among you.

Yes, and NOW he's called ALL to repentence.

It is the same as the issue as slavery. We are now without excuse having come to the knowledge that all are made in God's image which is the enslaving of another person is a moral wrong.

It would be equally immoral ...take a single wife for the purpose of having a single sex object. Right? Is that what you think a wife is?

You are correct, and No.

Could you rephrase this, I am not at all clear to what your refer?

None knew in her heart that polygamy is wrong and a sin. She was right. I knew it too but I had to hear the other side which I did and then I dug even deeper and the scriptures have confirmed that it was a matter of cultural ignorance. Both the enslaving of people and polygamy are a sin, and we can know this now having been called to repentence. That's the jist.

[firehill]

Once a man is married to a woman who between the two has AUTHORITY over his physical body in regards to sexual relations? Anybody know?

Yes , Abigail had authority over Davids body.

Now, what does Paul say in the NT regarding marriage of ONE man and ONE woman?

[Guest Biblicist]

Am I to assume from the nature of your post that you are arguing in favor of polgamy?

What's "polgamy"?

You know very well what I was asking, just because I mispelled it.

Is this your way of avoiding an answer to a direct question?