Israel/ Holy Ground

[Snowdoove]

Pray for the Peace of Israel!

re: Is Israel still standing on Holy Ground?

Snowdoove

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Snowdoove,

What makes you think that the land of Israel is Holy? It certainly is a land of the Holy covenant between God and Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

DadErnie,

Deut. 11:11-12

"But the land into which you are about to cross to possess it, a land of hills and valleys, drinks water from the rain of heaven, a land for which the Lord your God cares; the eyes of the Lord your God are always on it, from the beginning even to the end of the year."

Psalm 132:13

For the Lord has chosen Zion;

He has desired it for His habitation.

2 Chron. 6:6

but I have chosen Jerusalem that My name might be there, and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.'

Zech. 8:1-3

Then the word of the Lord of hosts came saying, [2] "Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'I am exceedingly jealous for Zion, yes, with great wrath I am jealous for her.' [3] "Thus says the Lord, 'I will return to Zion and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the Lord of hosts will be called the Holy Mountain.'

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shiloh,

Can you please tell me what these verses mean:

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Heb 8:1-5 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

What makes a place "holy" is the "presence of God". The only place now that is HOLY is the Kingdom of God, and the saints that inhabit it. It is among us, it is universal. What made Mt. Horab Holy? It was the presence of God that met Moses there.

I believe that on account of the Fathers and the Holy covenant, that Jerusalem shall be the place from where Jesus and all His saints shall rule for 1,000 years, but ersatz Israel cannot be considered Holy at present.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

DadErnie,

First of all, you need to show that Deut. 11:11-12 , Psalm 132:13, 2 Chron. 6:6 and Zech. 8:1-3 are no longer true. The Sciptures show that God has a special affection for the Land of Israel. God has not changed, and His Word has not changed. What God says in Deuteronomy, Psalms, and Zechariah concerning Israel are as true now, as they were when He inspired such things to be written. The Scriptures you offer from Revelation in no way cancel the truths of the above mentioned passages.

Revelation speaks of the holiness of Israel in a future time, and that is all well and good. It is because God has a special plan for that Land and the Jewish people He is drawing back to that Land that we see Him in prophecy dealing most conspicuously with them.

You see, it is not merely the prescence of God that makes the Land "holy." It is the fact that He has chosen to place His Name there, (2Chron. 6:6) and He has nowhere spoken that He has removed it.

Is it a threat to Christianity if God considers the Land of Israel a special place? Does that somehow diminish salvation?

"Holy" means "set apart." The Land is holy in that God has set it apart and reserved it for the Jewish people. Until the Jewish people returned to the land, it would not produce anything for anyone else that lived there. For 2000 years it was nothing but barren desert and Malaria infested swamps so long as other peoples lived there. Only when the Jews came back did it start to produce tomatoes, cotton, oranges, wheat, and even grass. In less than 60 years, Israel has become one the most modern and scientifically advanced countries in the world. Some of the most amazing lifesaving advancements in medical science come from Israel. Amercian lives have been saved because of such advancements. God is blessing the land and people of Israel inspite of their unbelief.

[Guest yod]

Yeah, DE

I don't see why you would suppose that the "New Jerusalem" being a holy city would negate the current Jerusalem from being holy also. There is no reason to make such a linkage.

In many ways, the current Jerusalem isn't as pagan as was when the Lord called it HOLY in days past. This is still the land he gave to Abraham...and He still calls it holy.

Shiloh has pointed out Zech 8 where God is definitely talking about current Jerusalem and calls it the holy city. I'll let God defend His definition, though....

[Guest shiloh357]

DadErnie,

I would also like to add to my comments above about the other references you gave,

Heb 8:1-5 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

This is a reference to office High Priest and is discussing the sacrifical system. It has nothing to do with the Land of Israel.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In this verse, Paul compares the frailty of the human vessal in comparison with its future glory. It is the knowledge of that future glory that sustains him admist the decay of the outward man. Again, this has nothing to do with the Land of Israel.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I fail to see how this even comes close to addressing the issue. This in no way detracts from what the Word of God has stated previously about God's feelings toward the Land of Israel.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yod and Shiloh,

A true Christian looks to Mt. Sion, the great City, the Heavenly Jerusalem as the promise of what is to come. He does not look to Alayah to Jerusalem. Both Jew and Gentile believers should be looking for that home that is in Heaven. Why can't you see that?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest shiloh357]

DadErnie,

Greetings Yod and Shiloh,

A true Christian looks to Mt. Sion, the great City, the Heavenly Jerusalem as the promise of what is to come. He does not look to Alayah to Jerusalem. Both Jew and Gentile believers should be looking for that home that is in Heaven. Why can't you see that?

Who says that we are not looking to the Heavenly Jersusalem that God has promised? Who are YOU to say that we are not looking for "that home that is in Heaven?" Why do you see Christians as unspiritual if they have any postive feelings for Jews or for Israel? You are quick to jump in and pour cold water on any Israel-positive posts. Do you have something against Jews?

The Scritpures I provided show what GOD has to say about Israel and Jerusalem. Those Scritpures show that God has a special affection for the Land of Israel. Does that mean that God is not looking to the promised New Jersualem either? Pretty absurd, huh? If God can still love the Land of Israel and the Jews, then so can I. I ought to love the things that He does.

The Scriptures you provided do not even remotely address the issue much less refute the fact that Israel is His land. God says the Land is His in Lev. 25:23

DadErnie, are you threatened somehow if God has a special plan for the Land of Israel?

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shiloh,

How little you know me, even after all my posts supporting the evangelization of the Jews. One of my main goals is to let Christians know their duty to perform Romans 11:30-31.

BUT,