nebula Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Is light the absence of darkness? or is darkness the absence of light? I would think the answer is easy. Consider this: You can flash light, but you can't flash dark. Scientifically, is darkness composed of anything, the way light is composed of photons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2007 God didn't hang around in total darkness for all eternity past and suddenly say to Himself, I should create daylight? That reminds me of a question I had asked a long time ago, and I think it would fit to re-ask it here: If God is light, why did He need to create it? And where did the darkness come from? Interesting subject all right! Thanks to all for participating and making it even more interesting. Your question 'nebula' is a good one and it throws a spanner into the works of those who believe that God is "everywhere," for if He was "everywhere" in the sense that some believe God is spiritually everywhere, then there would have been no reason for Him to create light? You and we all know that darkness is the absence of light. So if God is light and if He is everywhere, then He cannot truly be everywhere. Under this proposal He cannot be where ever there is any darkness. The omnipresence of God is a totally different subject. Regarding the first rebellion of Lucifer, and the last war, which will take place in Heaven, Scripture shows this. The heavens are peopled with multitudes of spirit-beings of different orders and kinds. (Rev. 12:12 ;13 15). These beings are of three classes. 1. Gods subjects, (Heb. 1 : 6-14; 2 : 5-9; Rev. 12 : 7-12) 2. Satan's angles who are loose with him Rev. 12 : 7-12). 3. Demons who are loose working with satan. This war in heaven will be the last desperate struggle between spirit beings in the heavenlies for or against the majesty and Kingdom of God. It will be the culmination of the struggle in Heaven between God and Satan. The first struggle began when lucifer attempted to exalt his kingdom above the angles of God and dethrone God from His universal kingdom over all other kingdoms in the universe. In his rebellion against God and in his ascention into Heaven and above the clouds from the Earth (Isa. 14:12-14) he was cast out of Heaven and backdown to the ground and was dethroned. God destroyed the Earth, turned it upside down, and flooded it. Although deprived of his kingdom and exalted position Satan was not deprived of the power which was his by nature for he still has great power in the heavenlies and over the Earth that was usurped from Adam (Eph.2:2; 6:12; John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; Matt. 4:1-11). He still has access to Heaven and accuses the saints before God day and night (Job 1:6; 2:1; Rev. 12:10-12; Zec. 3:6). Scriptures describe Satan's rebellion fully and in Isa. 14:12-14 we have conclusive proof that Lucifer ruled the earth before the days of Adam. It could not have been since Adam that He ruled and fell from Heaven as in this passage, for he was already a fallen cretaure before Adam was created. After Adam was created, Lucifer regained dominion of the Earth and has been prince of this world ever since. The statements in Isa. 14:12-14 canot possibly be made of an earthly king. "How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations! for thou hast said in thine heart, I WILL ascend into heaven, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL be like the most High" The facts stated in these passages first prove that this refers to Lucifer. That he was the son of the morning, and therefore no earthly man. That he fell from Heaven. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18). That he was cut to the ground. That he had weakened the nations on Earth. That he was exalted in his heart. That he invaded Heaven, where God rules. That he was a king, for he had a throne and subjects over whom he ruled. That he wantedto exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1 Isa. 6:1). That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. Any knigdom located under the clouds and stars has to be on the Earth for one can stand on certain parts of the Earth and still be above clouds, but not stars. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on Earth at the time of Adam. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day, so this must refer to a time before Adam. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the clouds and the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars and the clouds. That Gods throne is located somewhere in the northern part of the vast universe, for promotion comes neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: HE PUTTETH DOWN ONE and SETTETH UP ANOTHER (Psalms 75:6-7). God put down Lucifer and set up Adam. This passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam. In Col. 1:15-17 we read of Christ creating THRONES, DOMINIONS, PRINCIPALITIES, AND POWERS in Heavens and on the Earth. They are located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by these passaged above. His had subjects which were all destroyed when he rebelled by the flood of Gen 1:2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2007 With regard to God and darkness: Psalm 139:11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me," 12 even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you. Also nebula, I wanted to come back to this: So the reasoning behind the re-creation argument is actually not a re-creation of the heavens and earth, but rather a re-creation of the earth's surface and atmosphere. In other words, this view sees an unknown gap in time between verses 1 & 2. Reminded me of these passages: surface/face of the earth? Zeph 1:2 "I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. 3 "I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. (I've noted before that when the destruction of earth is mentioned, it is in the context of "face of the earth" rather than the whole earth.) (Makes me think of carbon dating.) In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Is light the absence of darkness? or is darkness the absence of light? I would think the answer is easy. Consider this: You can flash light, but you can't flash dark. Scientifically, is darkness composed of anything, the way light is composed of photons? Yes, the answer is easy but I think the question should be asked I mean, we might be left with no questions....and then what??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Your question 'nebula' is a good one and it throws a spanner into the works of those who believe that God is "everywhere," for if He was "everywhere" in the sense that some believe God is spiritually everywhere, then there would have been no reason for Him to create light? You and we all know that darkness is the absence of light. So if God is light and if He is everywhere, then He cannot truly be everywhere. Under this proposal He cannot be where ever there is any darkness. The omnipresence of God is a totally different subject. I must admit, Hazard, that I get spanners in my works all the time. I have a big collection of spanners at home I have taken on the theory of God being everywhere. Not that it's the gospal but it is a way of testing and checking for the truth. I would say that checking for the truth is something we do have in common, no? If God is not everywhere, then there has to be something else where God isn't. What is that "something else"? If God is light (an assumption I agree with, but an assumption just the same) then darkness would be that "something else" wouldn't it? I propose that God is everything, including darkness. When God is everything, there is nothing else and the meaning of light and darkness has no meaning. Yet it is written plainly in God's own book!! What I have presented earlier in this thread is a view (no proof. assumption only) that God is everything and what we call "creation" is actualy an act by God that seperated Himself into several parts. First, what we know as the Trinity. the three distinct personalities of God. Then parts of Him that he took His Godly awareness away from and these parts became what we call "Man". We have lost that awareness of being one with God and our walk or salvation is the path back to that awareness. We don't exist as individual entities! This would explain how we are "in His image", for one. Regarding the first rebellion of Lucifer,......The multitude of spirits roaming the earth and heaven, involved in spiritual battles........ they all imply action and action implies life. God seems to have wanted life in His universe. Life means movement. Movement means at least two points that are different so that there can be movement from point A to point B. Electric voltage shows us the potential of what can happen between the plus and the minus. When electricity actualy flows between the two points (switching on the light for instance) there is something happening....there is life! So for life to exist there has to be two points that are seperated by something that makes them different, this will cause a flow of some kind....... and flow is movement is life! This would be a good reason for God creating something apart from Himself. It isn't real, but we don't know that because God took the Godly awareness away from us in order to create individuals, in order for there to be flow, in order for there to be life! Of course this brings up the question: Why would God need/want life in the first place?! My off the cuff feeling is that God is Love and love is a dynamic thing. Life is dynamic. There is no Love without Life! Ok, waiting for the next spanner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 13, 2007 I propose that God is everything, including darkness. When God is everything, there is nothing else and the meaning of light and darkness has no meaning. Yet it is written plainly in God's own book!! What I have presented earlier in this thread is a view (no proof. assumption only) that God is everything and what we call "creation" is actualy an act by God that seperated Himself into several parts. First, what we know as the Trinity. the three distinct personalities of God. Then parts of Him that he took His Godly awareness away from and these parts became what we call "Man". We have lost that awareness of being one with God and our walk or salvation is the path back to that awareness. We don't exist as individual entities! This would explain how we are "in His image", for one. Errrr . . . playing these thought games is fun . . . but what you are describing here sounds like pantheism, which is associated with the New Age movement. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source pan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Errrr . . . playing these thought games is fun . . . but what you are describing here sounds like pantheism, which is associated with the New Age movement. Whew Nebula !!! This is like a Katyusha rocket landing on my head !!! Thanks for bringing this up. I have never heard of Pantheism. Nor have I ever thought of myself as new-age. I will definatly check my standing with God and Yeshua Thanks for the pointer. Looks like I need a good checkup I'm off to the site you brought here to re-align myself with the PERSONAL GOD that I know. Blessings in Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Blessings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupo Posted July 15, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,055 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/12/1944 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Errrr . . . playing these thought games is fun . . . but what you are describing here sounds like pantheism, which is associated with the New Age movement. I needed some time to do a checkup on this Pantheism thing.... Thanks for the URLs Nebula. This is what I came up with:- - Pantheism usually denies the existence of a personal God - Pantheism is traditionally a religious alternate to Theism - God is not a person - Pantheism is very unclear, has no clear doctrine or rituals - In Pantheism there is little doctrine and no church - Pantheism holds that worshipping the unity is idolatrous - One of Pantheists big questions is "is there life after death on a personal basis?" I tried making some kind of unified sense out of it and what I came up with a bunch of words that got me nowhere, very fast! I had the feeling that the person explaining Pantheism was doing his best to confuse me. He sure did a good job Unity, Divinity, Monism, Transcendence, Panpsychism, Animism, Emanationism, Otoise, Prolegomenon, Essentialism There were more but I think this is enough to make a nice thick mental soup So the question "am I a Pantheist?" can be answered very easily. - The God I believe in is VERY personal ! - It's true, I am quite unclear about many things and therefore check things out. - To be honest, I'm not sure what a "Doctrine" is so i'll pass on that - Worshipping the Unity..... isn't that like worshipping God? and that is idolatrous?! - Is there life after death? I think that's a valid question to ask....no? You know what? I'll ask my PERSONAL GOD Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I propose that God is everything, including darkness. When God is everything, there is nothing else and the meaning of light and darkness has no meaning. Yet it is written plainly in God's own book!! Sorry hupo, but that is unscriptural. God is not everything and I fail to see where you get that from Scriptures. God is transcendent and separate from creation. God is the Creator, not the creation. Furthermore, the Bible says that "God is light and in Him, is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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