Vickilynn Posted July 21, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2007 What has the church got to do with marraige?? Shalom, Ummm, G-d. G-d's laws. The Church = we are the church. Common law marraige is still valid! It is ILLEGAL is some states. Sorry. you don't need a church, preacher, or courthouse to be married. just you, your mate and God is all that is needed to make a marraige. Nope, that's shacking up. And if you have sexual relations, that's fornication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted July 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ummm, G-d. G-d's laws. The Church = we are the church. Again what does the church have to do with marriage ceremonies. Nowhere in thebible will you find a church officiating or preforming any marraige ceremony. so what does it have to do with marraige again?? It is ILLEGAL is some states. Sorry. doesn't negate the fact that its 100% legal and recognized in others. so since that is the case then, it is not necessary for a preacher, justice of peace or any governing authority to give permission for a couple to marry! That still reaffirms my position that the only thing necessary to have a marraige is man woman and God and a commitment between the two sealed by the two becoming one. Nope, that's shacking up. And if you have sexual relations, that's fornication. Its good to know all adam and eve and ruth and boaz were shacking up! Well if thats shacking up then i'll follow what God ordained them to do since it was ok in his eyes that they did it that way. I for the life of me can't find one instance where i have to go to a church to have this preformed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted July 21, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Nope, it means you are LEGALLY married and recognized as married for your children and also in the church and before G-d. Rebelling against G-d's design is never a good move. What has the church got to do with marraige?? Common law marraige is still valid! you don't need a church, preacher, or courthouse to be married. just you, your mate and God is all that is needed to make a marraige. We must not forget that common law marraiges got started because in many places in the first 150 years of our country there were not enough preachers to go around and they were called Circuit Riders. These preachers would spend time in each county in their circuit and sometimes it would be several months between preacher visits so to make it lawful for a couple to be able to live togather until the next time the preacher came around. The common law marriage was created and made legally binding. But these couple were supposed to get properly hitched when the preacher came. Today there is no need for common law marraiges because one can find a preacher anywhere they are in this country in short order. Now mans law still says that common law marraiges are exceptable but in the eyes of God couples who live together are living in sin. So who are you going to side with? God and His laws or man's laws. God didn,t create common law marraiges man did. There might not have been a marraige certifcate in the old testament but there was alway a marraige ceremony and a writ of devorcement. Common Law marraiges are biblically illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickilynn Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 Again what does the church have to do with marriage ceremonies. Nowhere in thebible will you find a church officiating or preforming any marraige ceremony. so what does it have to do with marraige again?? Shalom E, Because G-d ordained it and WE are the church. We are to live by HIS standards. We are to obey the law of the land. doesn't negate the fact that its 100% legal and recognized in others. so since that is the case then, it is not necessary for a preacher, justice of peace or any governing authority to give permission for a couple to marry! That still reaffirms my position that the only thing necessary to have a marraige is man woman and God and a commitment between the two sealed by the two becoming one. Nope, you're wrong. Read the Common Law marriage laws. They have restrictions and one of them is that the could WILL get a legal marriage at some point. And in the states where it is illegal, it is considered shacking up to live together without being legally married. Its good to know all adam and eve and ruth and boaz were shacking up! Well if thats shacking up then i'll follow what God ordained them to do since it was ok in his eyes that they did it that way. I for the life of me can't find one instance where i have to go to a church to have this preformed! How ridiculous. Adam and Eve were married by G-d. There was no such thing as a church then. You don't have to go to a church, but you DO have to have a legal marriage to be legally married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dew Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I was watching the musical 'Oliver'. There is a scene where Nancy is singing about Bill Sykes where she says they live together because they can't afford to get married. All the commitment is expressed though. Does a biblical marriage have to have a legal certificate? OR can a couple make a commitment to each other in front of God and friends? I cannot remember reading that there was a certificate in the OT. Well I see the point and yes we need to follow the laws of the land. However, the real point and need for a marriage license is that it legally binds you together. Part of marriage is being one, and part of being one is a joining and combining of assets. Lets face it, it is one thing to stand up and say I love this person in front of some friends, quite another to say I also legally give this person half of all my assets and half of all my future income and if I try to try to break this contract in the future I will have to go through a legal divorce and legally divide up those things. The legal binding also has many many benefits, things like inheritance, health care, social security survivorship, future children and their rights etc, The fact is a marriage license and civil ceremony are not at all expensive and take only a short amount of time in my town it would take less than 20 minutes. So if someone is unwilling to do that with all of these benefits, one must wonder why? Of course we all know the real answer. Well said. this is completey true. Marriage was and is instituted by God and it is a law of the land and I believe of God to bind a man and a woman in HOLY matrimony. To say God is well pleased with two people living together is an abomination to God. The word teaches us that we should not be caught in forinacation. That is living out of weddlock. God himself performed the first marriage ceremony. God saw that Adam was alone and made a woman named Eve. Adam said this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman for she was taken out of man. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:18-25--This is the institution of marriage and we should not rebell against anything God has put together. We are living in a world that are making their own laws and ways and this is a great way that the devil is fighting our world. He is trying to do away with family and if you do away with family you are destroying the foundation of our country. Marriage and family was the first thing God instituted, even before the church. So Gods institution of marriage and family should be valued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I was watching the musical 'Oliver'. There is a scene where Nancy is singing about Bill Sykes where she says they live together because they can't afford to get married. All the commitment is expressed though. Does a biblical marriage have to have a legal certificate? OR can a couple make a commitment to each other in front of God and friends? I cannot remember reading that there was a certificate in the OT. I don't recall any certificate in the OT, I do recall alot of formality than this though in the NT. Marriage is a covenant between the couple and God and the community. If the community recognises "moving into his parent's tent" as a legal marriage, then it is legal and thus binding in the eyes of God. Some states in the US have common law marriages. If the community recognises them then they are biblically binding too. Problem is that alot of those Common law laws express that the couple has functioned as a married couple for x number of months or years (ie they've been sexual) which would of course mean that in order to be married this way you have to sin first. IMO, if the man and woman took vows in a church they could be bound before God and not the state. And if some marriages (ie, homosexual ones) were legal by the state they would not be binding before God. But usually the biblical precedent is that the marriage ceremony and legal issues are whatever the community holds as married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I was watching the musical 'Oliver'. There is a scene where Nancy is singing about Bill Sykes where she says they live together because they can't afford to get married. All the commitment is expressed though. Does a biblical marriage have to have a legal certificate? OR can a couple make a commitment to each other in front of God and friends? I cannot remember reading that there was a certificate in the OT. Well I see the point and yes we need to follow the laws of the land. However, the real point and need for a marriage license is that it legally binds you together. Part of marriage is being one, and part of being one is a joining and combining of assets. Lets face it, it is one thing to stand up and say I love this person in front of some friends, quite another to say I also legally give this person half of all my assets and half of all my future income and if I try to try to break this contract in the future I will have to go through a legal divorce and legally divide up those things. The legal binding also has many many benefits, things like inheritance, health care, social security survivorship, future children and their rights etc, The fact is a marriage license and civil ceremony are not at all expensive and take only a short amount of time in my town it would take less than 20 minutes. So if someone is unwilling to do that with all of these benefits, one must wonder why? Of course we all know the real answer. This question is a good one, but I can also tell you of a few reasons which have nothing to do with free milk from a cow and everything to do with the welfare state. There are many examples that I know of personally where there would be financial hardship for a woman and her children if she were to legally marry the man she is in love with. Now I know of a woman who can't marry the man she's in love with because it will get her and her kids kicked out of section 8 housing even though he only has a service sector job himself and can't afford to put them up either. IF they do the right thing they will be homeless. So they can never be a family (if they are moral) or they will end up in sin (if they are not). Right now, they are waiting to see if they can get over the hurdle enough to make it work without Uncle Sam, but so far it isn't working well. It's not always about fornicating. Many times it's about money. I have always hated a system which will reward those who shack up and punish those who want to do the right thing. For me, personally, I decided I'd just as soon not get married and therefore not seek a relationship right now. In my divorce, I am entitled to a portion of my ex husband's retirement, but only so long as I stay unmarried. The divorce does not recognise common law as a marriage for this purpose so, I could have one and still get the retirement. Which, when the child support ends right now I will NEED in order to pay bills. So my choices are... fornicate....have a common law marriage or...not get into a relationship at all. Out of the three, I chose the latter, I can't afford it. The laws of this state have changed recently and common law requires SEX over a period of time before it's legal. I won't do that. It used to just be the merging of assets and having a common address and other "public" declarations of commitments and I might have considered that. Of course all would be right with the world if the books I've started ever became best sellers and I wouldn't NEED his retirement. But things don't look like they're changing any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natt Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 Most marriages cost roughly between $5000 to $10000. This is alot of money. The cheapest wedding is at a registry office. I wouldn't think that would be encouraged if the couple are commited Christians. I agree that Bill Sykes and Nancy are probably not a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
None Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1908 Share Posted July 22, 2007 About "common law marriage" from here. "In order for a common law marriage to be found to be valid, the party must prove that the man and the woman, before two witnesses, declared their present intent to be married by saying to each other words similar to: "From this date forward, I consider you to be my [wife] [husband]." There are no "magic words"; they only need to convey a present tense intent to be married. If you cannot prove such a ceremony, then you may be able to prove that you are common law married by proving that you held each other out to be Husband and Wife to community. You would do that showing that, for example, you both used the same last name, filed tax returns as married, introduced each other as Husband and Wife, paid bills in the married name, bought property in the married name, etc. There is no magic formula to prove that you are married; it is evaluated on a case by case basis. Common law marriage is frought with problems. If you want to be considered married, this lawyer advises to get a marriage license and have a proper ceremony. Otherwise, you may think you are married, but what you think is not worth a hill of beans. It is up to a judge to decide. If you have a license and a ceremony, then there is no doubt. Otherwise, let the buyer beware!" This was the law in Pa. up until 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted July 22, 2007 legally binding. But these couple were supposed to get properly hitched Using the bible, show me the steps and proceedure to get properly hitched! when the preacher came. The bible doesn't say a preacher was necessary. Now mans law still says that common law marraiges are exceptable but in the eyes of God couples who live together are living in sin. Not according to Vickilyns post. Mans laws are Gods laws according to her. Besides, Man never used a church before, nor the services of a preacher in the bible. So who are you going to side with? God and His laws or man's laws. God didn,t create common law marraiges man did. Source for your conclusion? i don't find that in the bible! Lets see Adam and Eve slept together and was fruitful and multiplied. No ceremony, no preacher, no government agency telling them they could get married. Ruth and Boaz, no church, no preacher, no governing agency telling them they could get married, there was a condition because she was previously married and her husbands assets were at stake, and those assets had to be handled properly and her husbands brother had to be absolved of his responsibility properly. There might not have been a marraige certifcate in the old testament but there was alway a marraige ceremony and a writ of devorcement. Where? Can you show me a ceremony? can you show me where a preacher or judge or official was over it? Common Law marraiges are biblically illegal. Where in the bible does it say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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