exrockstar Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 1. Deborah was not a high priest nor did she sacrifice in behalf of anyone. Lapidoth her husband did. I'm curious what your interest in sacrifices is all about. Pastors are not priests and do not sacrifice anything. Christ was the last sacrifice. And we are now a spiritual nation of priests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted July 22, 2007 1. Deborah was not a high priest nor did she sacrifice in behalf of anyone. Lapidoth her husband did. I'm curious what your interest in sacrifices is all about. Pastors are not priests and do not sacrifice anything. Christ was the last sacrifice. And we are now a spiritual nation of priests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted July 22, 2007 1. Deborah was not a high priest nor did she sacrifice in behalf of anyone. Lapidoth her husband did. I'm curious what your interest in sacrifices is all about. Pastors are not priests and do not sacrifice anything. Christ was the last sacrifice. And we are now a spiritual nation of priests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 (I don't recall him any selecting any female apostles) Junia was an apostle, an outstanding apostle praised by Paul. how do you explain away or ignore the results of that agenda in the churches and denominations where females were and continue to be ordained? I am not aware of the troubles you speak of. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 i think oprah would make a good pastor. Exactly, an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way - typical woman pastor. Excuse me, Worm, but are you saying the typical female pastor is an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way? Oh....yeah...I see. You DID say that! What do you base this on??? Whether there SHOULD be female pastors or not, this is very offensive to the woman who preach the Word. Typical male intolerance. (Oh, did that make me sound as biased as you??? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 Too I'd have to ask, how does 'they' (original Greek, like 'a woman') come into play? What is Paul saying about 'a woman' (meaning 'women' according to you) by v.15? 'She' (original Greek whci refers back to 'a woman' which stands for all women according to what your saying) will be saved through ...if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.' He can't say that 'she' will be saved through...if women continue in faith....etc. because that is grammaticaly impossible. Paul is reverting back to the plural that he started with in verses 9 and 10. It means "women will be saved . . . if they continue . . . " 'She' refers back to Eve, but Eve is the prototypical woman (singular) here so she represents all women (plural). This further explains why Paul can switch from singular to plural in verse 15. If 'they' included the woman's husband (as it has been suggested in this forum), then the woman's salvation would depend on her husband's continuing in faith and love and holiness, with self-control. -Neopatriarch ...So then my next question could be, IF Paul means 'all women' by 'a woman' (and for all time by 'I do not allow'...) because of the reason you give above then '13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.', means what? So based on those satatements, also I'd ask, what is Paul linking Adam being created first to? And I'd also ask, what is Paul linking Eve's creation after Adam to? What has he ACTUALY linked the order of creation to in those verses, 13 & 14? Thanks for answering to my second paragraph but I noticed that you didn't answer my first which I posted above. Before you can claim or interpret that Paul is reverting back to the plural of v.10 by using 'they' in v.15 BECAUSE 'she' (as you claim) refers to Eve as the prototypical woman you need to answer to what link Paul makes between Eve being created after Adam. Since you are using ' vv.13 & 14, '13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.', as the bases for your interpretation of 'she' and 'they' therefore you need to FIRST take what Paul is saying about Adam and Eve and then go from there. So again I ask you, what link does Paul make between Adam being created first then Eve? The links are STATED by Paul. Once it is understood and accepted what links he is STATING then we can see whether or not it is true that he is actualy reverting back to the plural of v.10 by using 'they' based on your interpretation that 'she' refers back to Eve as the prototypical woman (thereby 'she' means 'woman'). Also if then 'she' means Eve which means 'woman' then the grammar still doesn't line up with 'they' otherwise Paul is saying essentialy, woman will be saved through...if women continue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted July 22, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2007 Nearly all these denominations (ELCA, PCUSA, and others) have fallen into various forms of apostasy, feminism, gnosticism and unbelief. Nearly all are on the verge of ordination of homosexuals. Nearly all have replaced the doctrine of justification and the gospel with a feel good social gospel, a politically correct agenda and liberal politics. All of those practices are the direct result of ordaining women and placing them in positions of church authority. Is this spirit of the anti-Christ so strong in you that you just ignore the reality of where women pastors and church leaders have taken so many? By ordaining women pastors, in your opinion, all of these churches have turned from the Word? I would have to say that the one denomination that has NO female priests or bishops is the one with the biggest problems today. Would you care to guess which one? BTW, what do liberal politics have to do with the church??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted July 23, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted July 23, 2007 First, it is uncertain that Junias was a woman. The name Junias may be masculine. Second, it is uncertain Junias is called an apostle. Look up Eldon J. Epp. His work on Junia is the most thorough and complete to date. You can find his book "Junia, the first woman apostle", on Amazon. Junia in the new Dutch Bible translation (NBV) 1. Rom 16,7 Groet Andronikus en Junia, mijn volksgenoten die met mij in de gevangenis hebben gezeten, die als apostelen veel aanzien genieten en die eerder dan ik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted July 23, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2007 First, it is uncertain that Junias was a woman. The name Junias may be masculine. Second, it is uncertain Junias is called an apostle. Look up Eldon J. Epp. His work on Junia is the most thorough and complete to date. You can find his book "Junia, the first woman apostle", on Amazon. Junia in the new Dutch Bible translation (NBV) 1. Rom 16,7 Groet Andronikus en Junia, mijn volksgenoten die met mij in de gevangenis hebben gezeten, die als apostelen veel aanzien genieten en die eerder dan ik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted July 23, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2007 Really what do 12 Jewish apostles have to do with a woman being a pastor? Jesus came to the Jewish people first and the 12 represent the 12 tribes of Isreal. No contradiction here then with Junia being an apostle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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