Dare I Ask...

[None]

QUOTE(shiloh357)

You want to hold me to the Scriptures, I will hold you to the same standard.

I don't have to refer to Ezekiel to prove the term "sons of God" meant angels who were NOT sons of man, you can't give me a verse in the Bible that clearly states that the "sons of God" are the line of Seth.

Only two lines came from Adam, either Cain or Seth. The Cainites do not qualify. That leaves only option.

The book of Jude refered to Enoch's teaching. He quoted directly from the book of Enoch.

Yes, and Paul in his epistles and in Acts also quotes from Pagan philosphers/authors. Does that mean that their writings are also inspired? Jesus also made references to the Talmud. Does that make the Talmud/Oral Law Scripture?

You yourself stated that you do not believe Genesis 6:1-4, a part of the "canon", to be the truth.

QUOTE

The only passage that anyone can use is the Gen 6:1-4 to make the case for angels procreating, and that very fact indicates that it is lacking in foundational truth.

That's your "stand" on that.

Actually you need to read a little closer. I was referring to those making a case for angels procreating. I was saying that the case for angels procreating lacks foundational truth because Gen. 6:1-4 is the only passage in Scripture they can use to support such an unbiblical doctrine.

QUOTE

...the Bible typically establishes a truth in numerous parallel passages.

If you want to shut up God's Word into 66 books because the Council of Laodicea decided that there are things that the common people should not read on their own, without guidance, then you close your eyes and go back to sleep.

One of the books that council of men(not even apostles) took out was the book of Enoch. In it held MANY "parallels" to the points 1)sons of God are angels 2)angels mated with "daughters of men".

Yeah, anyone can find ways to support unbiblical doctrine but they have to go outside the Bible, which only demonstrates the weakness of their position. Besides, the book of Enoch in commenting on these angels having sex with women, states that they produced giants towering at 450 feet tall. Is that what you believe? 450 feet is 300 cubits. Noah's ark was 300 cubits long. So you believe these women gave birth to giants that would grow to be as tall as the ark was long? The existence of such a race cannot be confirmed either biblically or scientifically.

Don't try and claim high standards by believing the Bible to be the only Word of God when you turn around and claim that Genesis 6:1-4 is not true. Because it isn't backed by a parallel. Please.

I didn't say it wasn't true. I said your ideas surrounding what it says, is not true. Again, you have to prove from the text, it demands "sons of God" to mean angels.

Referring to the line of Seth as the sons of God is to say that they had no need for God's sacrifice because they were sinless.

"Godly" does not equal "sinless." You are trying to imbue your own values to my words.

Shiloh, I can't even argue with you. You twist words worse than the snake in the garden of Eden, just to save face.

Nebula, It's very easy to find the term "sons of God" in the NT because it refers to AFTER we recieve Christ as our Savior and God adopts us into His family. Those scriptures, in fact, open up the door to the explanation that we are all, otherwise, sons of Adam.

Shiloh, you would have us believe that there was a righteous line, Seth's line, and an unrighteous line, the line coming from Cain. As if Adam had only two children. Genesis 5:4 clearly says that he has other sons and daughters after Seth. If the "sons of God", spoken of in 6:1-4, were from the line of Seth, that is saying that the line of Seth had god-like abilities which, when mated with the line from Cain(or any other children from Adam), created giants and superhumans, as it says in verse 4. The whole argument does not work. It only works if the "sons of God" spoken about are fallen angels, condemned to earth. But that messes up your other argument that angels have no sexual orientation so you need to stick with your story that this part of the Bible is either not true or it meant the line from Seth.

[nebula]

What about life in other parts of the Galaxy? Does our scripture imply or demand that any type of life existing outside of the planet earth is impossible? I am not talking about necessarily intelligent life or human life with a soul, but say an amoeba or plankton or something along those lines?

For that matter, why did God create all those other galaxies? What point do they serve?

Who knows what He's done in them? (That's a figure of speech - I know God knows, and maybe we'll know after we get to Heaven, but besides that....)

[nebula]

Nebula, It's very easy to find the term "sons of God" in the NT because it refers to AFTER we recieve Christ as our Savior and God adopts us into His family. Those scriptures, in fact, open up the door to the explanation that we are all, otherwise, sons of Adam.

You know we can go into theological circles with this? Recall how in Romans it is pointed out that Abraham was justified by faith, just as we are. The main difference between the people of faith before and after Christ's death and resurrection were that those before were believing in faith for something yet to come, and we are believing in faith for something that already has occurred.

But let me present something else to you:

Luke 3:38 - "...which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Here, Adam is call the son of God! What does this tell you?

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, I can't even argue with you. You twist words worse than the snake in the garden of Eden, just to save face.

NO, I am just preventing you from twisting my words as you have repeatedly done by acting as I am claiming Gen. 6:1-4 is not true, when my only assertion is that your take on it is not true.

If the "sons of God", spoken of in 6:1-4, were from the line of Seth, that is saying that the line of Seth had god-like abilities which, when mated with the line from Cain(or any other children from Adam), created giants and superhumans, as it says in verse 4. The whole argument does not work. It only works if the "sons of God" spoken about are fallen angels, condemned to earth.

Actually, the text does not say that the giants were the offspring of the "sons of God." That is not what the text says:

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Genesis 6:4)

The text indicates that the Giants existed prior to and after the son's of God had marital relations with the daughters of men. Again, you are basiing your view partially on the book of Enoch which states that these giants were 450 feet tall. Is that what you believe as well?

But that messes up your other argument that angels have no sexual orientation so you need to stick with your story that this part of the Bible is either not true or it meant the line from Seth.

The onus is still upon you to demonstrate from any other accepted biblical text that angels can and do procreate. Furthermore, verse 2 of chapter six plainly states that the sons of God took the daughters of men as wives. Jesus said the angels neither marry nor are given marriage. Their are no angelic weddings recorded in Scripture.

You are working from assumptions, not from any degree of textual authority.

Shiloh, you would have us believe that there was a righteous line, Seth's line, and an unrighteous line, the line coming from Cain. As if Adam had only two children. Genesis 5:4 clearly says that he has other sons and daughters after Seth.

Yes, but it was after the birth of Enosh to Seth that men began to call upon the Lord (YHVH).

And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. (Genesis 4:26)

Those who knew the supreme Name of God were the sons of God.

[None]

Nebula, It's very easy to find the term "sons of God" in the NT because it refers to AFTER we recieve Christ as our Savior and God adopts us into His family. Those scriptures, in fact, open up the door to the explanation that we are all, otherwise, sons of Adam.

You know we can go into theological circles with this? Recall how in Romans it is pointed out that Abraham was justified by faith, just as we are. The main difference between the people of faith before and after Christ's death and resurrection were that those before were believing in faith for something yet to come, and we are believing in faith for something that already has occurred.

But let me present something else to you:

Luke 3:38 - "...which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Here, Adam is call the son of God! What does this tell you?

Easy answer: Adam was made from God's hands and not born of a woman. Everyone besides Adam and Eve are sons of Adam and Eve.

[None]

Those who knew the supreme Name of God were the sons of God.

I disagree with you. I'm leaving it at that.

[nebula]

So, you are claiming then that Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and all the other men of faith until Acts 2 could not be considered "sons of God"?

[Guest shiloh357]

Those who knew the supreme Name of God were the sons of God.

I disagree with you. I'm leaving it at that.

That is all you can do. You can't actually refute a single point I have made. I would just leave it at that as well.

[antiaging]

I had to split my reply.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

I believe anything the King James version bible says.

And I reposted the original Scripture I had posted with the King James version. It says the same thing, as I pointed out. Did you read it?

The subject topic is ufos. I don't like being side tracked away from the topic.

Being a Christian message board, we reserve the right to "test the spirit" of posters.

I have shown biblical evidence to support that ufo aliens are God's angels and not devils.

You have arguments with that, then bring forth your scriptures that show it is not so. Bring forth your scriptures that show ufos to be associated with devils. Let's see them. --There aren't any.

First of all, I never posted anything about UFO's being associated with devils, and I have no intention to.

Second, I have challenged your interpretation of angels (and I wouldn't have butted in here like this if I hadn't read your post, which was wisely deleted, where you claimed: "What you consider rape might in reality be how God uses angels to control and upgrade the genetics of the human race, or to prevent genetic deterioration of humans."

That is nothing more than a complete degrading of the character of God.

As a woman, I can tell you point blank that uninvited intercourse or impregnating to a woman is as traumatizing as castration is to a man.

Unsaved people that are still in darkness and still controlled by the devil make movies like "Independance Day" which try to make aliens out to be villains. The Devil wants people to think that God's angels are villains or evil.

As a Christian you must judge truth by what the bible says. Not by hollywood's lies.

And what makes you think I am basing my view of aliens off of Hollywood?

Again, I am not making any claims about aliens. What I am claiming is that your claim about angels is severely incorrect.

That light brighter than the sun, that Paul saw on the road to Damascus is another typical ufo seen in modern times. Jesus spoke to him from that light. It was not a vision. All of the men with Paul also saw the light. It was a real physical manifestation in the sky. The light caused him real eye damage, which was later healed.

The bright ball of light is a typical ufo type.

You see - there - you are degrading Jesus!

Have you not heard? Jesus is the light!

Do you know nothing of the glory of God?!

Jesus (who is God) does not need a spacecraft to appear to a man. What are you saying about God by saying that He does?

[When Jesus ascended into heaven a cloud received Him out of their sight. Could be a regular cloud or could be a reference to the type of cloudy pillar that led the Israelites. He is also coming back with the clouds of heaven, the bible says that.]

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

That is just something I wonder about.

If you look up "cloud" in a concordance, you will see that a cloud is associated with the glory of the Lord. Do you know what the glory of the Lord is?

And by the way - if the cloud is associated with spacecraft, how did the cloud fill the temple?

1 Kings 8 (KJV)

10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

[antiaging]

I am getting tired of discussing this topic.

Just a little bit more.

Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing [them] rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Genesis 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Those are definitely two angels, not Jesus before He was born, and Lot calls them "my lords".

Genesis 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

The Lord sent them, and Lot called them "my Lords". God's name is in his angels as it is stated in the scripture in Exodus.

When angels do or say something they are acting in God's name; It is God doing it or saying it through them. They serve Him.

Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom:

Chapter breaks are not in the original scriptures; they are arbitrary.

From the context of Gen. 18: 21,22 those two angels, that went to Lot at Sodom, Gen. 19:1, were two of the men that Abraham spoke to.

From the context of the scriptures it looks like they were manlike angels and not a pre existing form of Jesus before his birth.

Gen. 19:1 says angels.

I am really tired of discussing this topic.

You are Christians. Ask God to show you what is true and what is false in all of this discussion and trust Him to do so. I will do the same. In faith God can show us the truth on this.

I am simply tired of discussing this.

Edited September 9, 2007 by antiaging