Evolution - Do you accept it or not?

[VRSpock]

What exactly defines"dirt"? If you are talking about the literal dirt of the ground, it could be anything depending on where you are. Silicon, Nitrogen, Carbon, Potasium, Sodium, Hydrogen, etc. Of course man is made of some of these basic elements as is everything else in the universe.

But God said he made Adam from the dust and since those elements are in humans, why not take it literally? Why would God make up a story instead of telling us the truth?

The flood in the story of Noah "covered the world". Alexander the Great "ruled the world". What exactly defines "the world"? Alexander the Great certainly did not rule the Americas or the Anartica or Austrailia. The flood covering the entire planet is another concept I have difficulty grasping.

But comparing the writings of Moses and the memoirs of Alex the Great are two different things here. Alex wasn't a biblical writer nor was he inspired by God to write it. I suggest you take a look at answersingenesis.org. Their website is easy to browse through. There is just way too much info on the flood and evidence for it to start posting. Honestly, you owe it to yourself to at least take a look at it.

Wouldn't it be ironic if in the end, everyone that has been fighting over the holy lands find they were quibling over the same God and that they are all in the wrong and subject to judgement for doing so?

Ironic yes. lol. But truth is not relative. That's why it's called truth.

I attended a Presbyterian church for a couple of years, was an active member up until recently, and was in near shock from what the minister of that church said to me when I explained my atheistic past and how I got there. He basically indicated an acceptance of Theistic Evolution.

I used to go to a presbyterian church as a youngster actually. It saddens me when churches actually fall for the lie of evolution. Honestly, I believe it to be the biggest hoax the world has ever seen.

The Presbyterian doctrine doesn't accept Revelations as a prophetic story of the end times either from my understanding, but that's another topic.

Wow. Are you still a presbyterian?

I've got several books that go into details about generally accepted Presbyterian doctrine. Of course, like any other denominational church, I can't subscribe to every single doctrine.

I'll definitely agree on that. I am currently pentecostal and very comfortable at my current church, but I also can't agree with all of the doctrines of the pentecostal religion. I'm glad that there is not a lot of 'weird' stuff at mine. The worship is amazing and the messages are right on. That's why I'm there. To worship and learn. I never thought I'd be so happy to go to church. I'm amazed at either the church that I attend, or what God has done inside of me. Not sure which. lol.

The Presbyterian doctrine is non-evangelical in nature and focuses more on intellectual than emotional worship, and while I found myself comfortable with this, I got more out of the sunday school discussions than the actual church service. As my relationship with God continues to grow, I wish to expose myself to other churches in my area.

That's cool. You sound a lot like me. Taking it slow and steady and you're very well aware. 10 years ago, I certainly never thought I'd end up as a Pentecostal but here I am. Our assistant pastor is very intellectual. He has many degrees and is very learned, but to be honest, I much more enjoy the teachings by our senior pastor, who is just a regular guy intellectually, but when he speaks, he just speaks to your heart. I find that much more fulfilling.

I found a copy of my paperwork on the essay a few years ago, but I think I might have destroyed it along with some other handy work of mine from the same time period.

I hope you can remember the subject you studied that turned your mind around. I'd love to reinvestigate it. Maybe the holy spirit will prompt your memory.

I had to dispose of the bible I had in high school because I was so full of discontent at the time for having beliefs forced on me that I didn't want to/wasn't ready to accept that I defaced my own bible along with the school text books from bible class. I felt really bad for having to throw it away, but I didn't want anyone else to come across it and be contaminated by the thoughts that were going through my mind at the time that I defaced it.

Wow, I'm amazed at your honesty. I appreciate and admire it too.

If you haven't asked for forgiveness for the things you now feel badly about, might I suggest you do? You don't need to hold onto those burdens or that guilt.

I am very thankful that God had patience with me. I am very thankful that, for whatever reason, God gave me an experience that caused my beliefs to make a 180 degree turn.

I hear ya bro! Loud and clear and I feel the same way. God was very patient with me too. I also, like you lost faith but he found me again. SLOWLY but surely I came back.

I'm sure I deserved his wrath many times. I'm also thankful for those still in my life who knew me when I was an atheist who didn't just walk away and have nothing to do with me because of my constant antagonism of Christianity. In fact, I'm thankful that we can sit here and have these discussions without it turnning into a flaming contest. Thank you for being patient with me and discussing the differences in our personal beliefs.

Praise God. (I never thought I'd say phrases like that either - lol) And yes, we can certainly have differences. I'm really happy to hear what God has done for you.

Thank you for the reference on Genesis. I will look into it. I believe the Holy Spirit has been prompting me....but not to remember the topic of my essay. I am pondering everything that we have discussed here regarding this issue. I've also been private messaging with a couple of other people on this same subject too.

I have been comfortable with putting God and evolution in the same boat, but this issue has been bothering me more and more over the past few months. It was bothering me before anyone showed me this message board and I found this thread. It has been a thorn in the back of my mind ever since God turned me around. I have been afraid to discuss it with those near me because I know how argumentative I can become.

As I just said to someone else in a private message, if I cannot accept the very first chapter of the very first book of the word of God, then I obviously have a problem.

I have asked forgiveness for those things from my past as well as forgiveness for all the times I've attempted to attack others faith in God.

I can no longer consider myself Presbyterian. I'm not sure I could ever label myself as a specific denomination.

I'm not sure exactly how to take Revelations. I have a tendancy to take issue in people having some seemingly weird fascination with the world ending. However, I cannot help but notice the direction the world seems to be heading in either. I guess I'm having the same issue with Revelations that I am having with Genesis and I need to re-evaluate these things.

From what I understand, the official presbyterian view is that it was a letter of inspiration to the 7 Christian churches under the realm of the Roman empire at the time of its writing. The intent was to inspire people to live each day of their lives as if the end time was very near...at least that's what the official belief is from my understanding. We had some study on this in Sunday School while I was attending that church. I think the official Presbyterian stance is that they're not sure exactly how to take Revelations either.

[whatsitmean]

Hi vrspock. I have read several of your posts, they are very good. I would very much like to suggest a book to you. It is one I mentioned a few days ago. IN SIX DAYS

In the fifty essays, there are many testimonies of how people struggeled with this very issue. One that made a similar statement that you just did.

if I cannot accept the very first chapter of the very first book of the word of God, then I obviously have a problem.

These are all top scientists who offer rock solid evidence that evolution never happened and very good proofs for a young earth.

[artsylady]

Hello again. VR:

I believe the Holy Spirit has been prompting me..

I believe you're right. Your testimony is very cool so far. I wonder what God has planned for you next.

Keep the faith and keep trusting God for answers. Pray for wisdom and God will give you answers - not all of the answers, but all of the ones we humans need to know.

[His son]

Quote:

you wont go to hell for thinking God created the world by using evolution..

For thinking no. But for believing it yes. You can not serve God and mammon, and the luke warm or fence riders that divide their beliefs between the two kingdoms will be spewed out of God's mouth. Evolution is just not Biblical.

[artsylady]

For thinking no. But for believing it yes. You can not serve God and mammon, and the luke warm or fence riders that divide their beliefs between the two kingdoms will be spewed out of God's mouth. Evolution is just not Biblical.

Where in the Bible, does it say you must believe in the creation account to be saved?

[nebula]

In the land of God's first heartache

Where our line of sin began

And the eyes of man were open

To the evil there at hand

The Creator heard the footsteps

But He did not see the man

And God called out for an answer

But he turned away and ran

An attempt in desperation

To be hid from holy eyes

Was to fashion out a garment

That would hide him in disguise

But the Father bled compassion

And with a fast forgiving hand

Took the life of one yet blameless

And made a covering for the man

Chorus

Offer up the sacrifice

Creation sent forth the call

One holy sacrifice

One life to pay for the fall

Offer up the sacrifice

The innocent one must be slain

Someone to pay the price

And bring men back to God again

On a hill outside Jerusalem

Where our sin had took its toll

On the life of One as blameless

As the Garden beast of old

And He bled with God's compassion

For the evil man had done

And the heart that cired, "Forgive them!"

Was the heart of God's own Son

The broken heart of God's own Son

(Chorus)

"Offer Up the Sacrifice" ~ Wayne Watson

[kjvtrue]

Of coarse I'm against Evolution, because I'm a Christian, because I believe there's a creator, and my creator is Jesus. Before you can even become a Christian you must believe there's a creator. If you accept Evolution,"are you a Christian," "do you believe in a creator," do you have commonsense?"

[artsylady]

Evolution doesn't say where life came from. Evolution is not atheism.

I didn't think I'd be quoting Fovezer here, but the above is true. (Fovezer, I guess you didn't say "evolution is not athiesm' enough times.) lol. You CAN believe in a creator and in evolution because as stated oh maybe a few times, evolution is not athiesm.

I personally believe in a creator and in the creation theory but don't think that all Christians believe the same way I do. And I'm not about to say that they're not going to heaven because they believe in evolution.

[Fovezer]

I haven

[Fovezer]

Fovezer:

In summary, the features of the living platypus, and the evidence available from its scanty fossil record, are both consistent with the idea that it has evolved from primitive mammals which still had many reptilian characteristics.

What about the bird-like features???

Do you realize the 'transitionals' , scanty as they are, are almost identical to the modern platypus?

Just because Talk origins has an answer, doesn't mean it's a good one. Is that why you post the link? Do you hope I won't actually read it?

You didn't read your own quote very well.

In summary, the features of the living platypus, and the evidence available from its scanty fossil record, are both consistent with the idea that it has evolved from primitive mammals which still had many reptilian characteristics.

There, I fixed it. So what is if archaeopteryx has a scanty fossil record? That doesn't mean all species have a scanty one. The fossil record in general is very strongly supporting of evolution.