nebula Posted May 20, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Yes, "the gap theory," another debate. The real question for those that support it is what went on between verse 1 and verse 2. Young's Literal Translation: "the earth hath existed waste and void" Well, I'm not about "the Gap theory" - I just know what the Bible says as it says it. There was an earth (that was "waste and void") and there was water before God said, "Let there be light." What happened between verses 1 & 2? I don't know - it doesn't say. Does it prove anything to you that I acknowledge the Bible left open a big mystery here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arkon Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth baw-raw' A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat). Created. Isa 42:5 Thus saith God Jehovah, he that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; he that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of Jehovah; For he commanded, and they were created. Deu 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and from the one end of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it? Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, profaning the covenant of our fathers? Mar 13:19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be. Same word. Same meaning. There was not a pre existing 'anything' before God created the heavens and the earth. God created the heavens and the earth. Then light Then land You will see with each part of creation...first he created the habitats, then the things that goes in them. Before God spoke....there was NOTHING. Nothing we see around us existed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 21, 2004 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 21, 2004 OK - to continue this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Genesis 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Answers in Genesis has much to say about the Gap Theory. They refute it. However most of their discussion on the subject is directed toward those who would put geologic ages in the gap. Early life, dinosaurs, cave men, etc. Another way to look at it is that this was an earth, perhaps before time as we know it, inhabited by the angels. The fall of Lucifer caused the condition of the earth being waste and void. Those that support this idea will point to verses like Luke 10:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 21, 2004 1) I am not arguing "Gap Theory." I am merely presenting what the Scripture says as it says it. 2) If you disagree, please analyze the Scriptoral text as I have to show me otherwise. Thank-you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arkon Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 neb, if your not putting ages and your not saying there was an already existing earth then I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tako Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/11/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2004 Hi guys, I read some of your comments on evolution, I'd like to throw in some of my Ideas if you don't mind. First of all I think Evolution is hard to argue about without first establishing that there is a GOD, so I would first search out if there is a GOD, and how you accomplish this is by DESIGN!!!. Intelligent DESIGN, once you are convinced it's not by chance then EVOLUTION is not a problem.. IN christ TAKO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 QUOTE 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. OK, I decided to do my own word search here. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EARTH = 'erets = "from an unused root probably meaning to be firm" *Used in other places to mean earth as in: "whole earth (as opposed to a part)," "earth (as opposed to heaven)," "earth (inhabitants)," or to mean land as in: "country, territory," "district, region," "tribal territory," etc. or ground, surface of the earth, or people of the land. FORMLESS = tohuw = "From an unused root meaning 'to lie waste'"; "formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness" VOID = Bohuw = "from an unused root (meaning to be empty)" or "emptiness, void, waste" DARKNESS = choshek = From the word chashak = "to be or become dark, grow dim, be darkened, be black, be hidden" *Also used to refer to the darkness that covered the land of Egypt (Ex. 10), the darkness around Mt. Sinai along with the cloud and fire (Deut. 4:11 & 5:23), "And He made darkness canopies around Him, A mass of waters, thick clouds of the sky." (2Sa 22:12), several references in Job including as a sample ""He wanders about for food, saying, 'Where is it?' He knows that a day of darknessis at hand." (Job 15:23), several references in Psalms such as "There were those who dwelt in dark ness and in the shadow of death, Prisoners in misery and chains," (Ps 107:10) SURFACE = paniym = "face" - from panah = "to turn" DEEP = t@howm = "deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea" WATER = mayim = "water, waters" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So, based on these meanings, it looks as if Gen 1:2 is to read: "The earth [land, ground, place of dwelling, territory - keep in mind that the concept of "the earth" as a planet as we know it was not in the equation] was formless [laid waste] and void [empty, void, waste], and darkness [from the meaing of the word, this is a darkness that has substance to it, such as caused by a cloud covering or "the place of darkness" rather than just being in a state of "without light" - as in something is causing this darkness] was over the surface [face] of the deep [depths of the ocean], and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters." This is before God said, "Let there be light."!! So, what the people knew back then as "the earth" - the firm ground upon which man can dwell - was in a state of waste and empty and the surface of the oceans were covered in a darkness. It was over this darkness that the Lord said, "Let there be light," and separated this darkness from the light He shown into this darkness. I don't know how you wish to interpret this, but what I see here is either a "pre-historical earth" that the Lord would re-create the surface of or a spiritual rather than a physical scenario is being described here. If you see this differently, please explain how these words can be translated differently to mean something else. Thank-you! OK - to continue this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE Genesis 1 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. DAY = Yowm = "day (as opposed to night)," "day (24 hour period)," "a working day, a day's journey," "days, lifetime (pl.)," "time, period (general), "year," "temporal references: today, yesterday, tomorrow ." Examples of yowm being used as a period of time: Ge 19:37 - "he is the father of the Moabites to this day" Ge 22:14 - "as it is said to this day" Ge 26:1 - "Now there was a famine in the land, besides the previous famine that had occurred in the days of Abraham." To name a few. NIGHT = Layil = "night (as opposed to day)," or "of gloom, protective shadow (fig.)" EVENING = `ereb = "evening, night, sunset" - From `arab meaning "to become evening, grow dark" MORNING = Boqer = "morning, break of day" - also "of end of night," "of coming of daylight," "of coming of sunrise," "of beginning of day," "of bright joy after night of distress (fig.)" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Interesting. There is darkness of the surface of the deep (oceans), and God says "Let there be light," and He separates the light from the darkness. John 1:5 - The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. Light is called "day," darkness is called "night" - and this before there is a sun to mark off time with. The passage then says, "evening then morning." As in vs. 2-3, we see the period of the coming darkness before we see the period of the coming light. And all throughout the rest of the chapter, evening, the coming of darkness, comes before morning, the period of light. Could this then be a reflection of what had happened? "There was evening" being symbolic of the "waste and void" that was before and "there was morning" refering to the Lord restoring what was lost, bringing a new light, a new dawn, a new day, onto the surface of the earth? If not - why not? Why can the references to day and night, evening and morning, and #'ed days not be symbolic? The passage makes so much more sense to me, and is so much more beautiful, reading the symbolisms, the poetic expressions, the theological undertones behind the "physical" descriptions. And why does that make me a heathen for perceiving it this way? WOW!!!! Well said!!! I would say that there is nothing heathen about it. Excellent work, Nebula!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Timer Posted May 21, 2004 Group: Soapbox - Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 962 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/11/1932 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Interesting article on the 6 days: 5760 and the Age of the Universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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