WayneB Posted August 29, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted August 29, 2007 It is filthy rags not because a person has a faith & trust in God and His Christ. It is filthy rags because man has said that in order to have a relationship with God (through faith in Christ) he must apply intellectual assent and accept (and you call it trust) that Jesus is God. This is man's effort and nothing to do with the righteousness that I have in Christ Jesus. There is huge divide between the faith I have (which is the gift of God) and the TRUST you have. Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us." Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." Regarding TRUSTing God...taking Him at His Word... John 8:24 "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." ...NOT my words but the words of Jesus Christ. Regarding the passage you quoted from John chapter 4, Jesus was speaking of the differences in STYLE of worship and not the SOURCE of worship. There is ONE God and He has revealed Himself to us through His Word. Therefore, it is not possible to know His Word and ignorantly take a stone, call it God and worship it. We have no excuse! It is NOT up to us to define God in a way we choose. Jesus did explain everything to us... and many still do not listen. I say again... be like the Bereans! Test the spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted August 29, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Any can deny whatever they wish, in terms of their academic appraisal of God and His Christ. But none can deny me this. Once I was dead, but now I live. Redeemed by the precious blood of the Jesus my blessed Savior and made alive in Him by the Spirit of the living God. My faith is not based on the words in a book. My faith is LIVING. I am not alive because I correctly interpret scripture. I am alive IN Christ. I am not a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted August 29, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted August 29, 2007 One thing I would add though to any who would question my relationship with God. Take care that you do not call unclean that which God has cleansed. No one is "judging" your position in Christ. Who are we to try? If the Father "judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son", what qualifies us, just servants of the Most High, to judge you? No one is questioning your relationship with God either. What we are doing is correcting you according to God's Word and the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself. ALL we can do is cast the seed of His Word your way. It is up to you to allow it to take root whereby the Holy Spirit waters it enabling it to grow. You call the word of God just "words in a book"? Yet Jesus Himself quoted Scripture often throughout His ministry on earth. Jesus even quoted Deut 8:3 when He answered [the tempter], "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" [Matthew 4:4] ...every word. Paul compares the word of God to a sword... the "sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God". [Ephesians 6:17b] How can you do battle if the Bible is just "words in a book"? Were the Bereans just being "academic" when they measured Paul's teachings against the Scriptures? [Acts 17:11] Why would God have Paul stay in Corinth a year and a half teaching them the word of God if it wasn't important? [Acts 18] Why would Peter tell us?... "For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God." [1 Peter 1:23] You have falsely accused us of judging you. You have falsely stated that we are just a product of what we learned from man. YET we are the ones sharing the words of Jesus Christ with you. You just can't defend your position so you choose to ignore those words and just rely on your "spiritual" perceptions. You haven't even yet responded to why you are so unwilling to test that spirit as the word of God instructs us to. Like a mentioned earlier, I don't expect you to change your long held position in the twinkling of an eye. That would be naive on my part. I'm just casting seed your way and encouraging you to test the spirit. Hopefully something shared with you takes root one day. May the Lord Bless you, wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebmilc Posted August 29, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 204 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/07/1949 Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) Any can deny whatever they wish, in terms of their academic appraisal of God and His Christ. But none can deny me this. Once I was dead, but now I live. Redeemed by the precious blood of the Jesus my blessed Savior and made alive in Him by the Spirit of the living God. My faith is not based on the words in a book. My faith is LIVING. I am not alive because I correctly interpret scripture. I am alive IN Christ. I am not a Edited August 29, 2007 by Rebmilc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh is salvation Posted August 29, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2007 So, basically you are saying that the church in the 4th century had the same doctrine that todays church has. Only questin is, are they right? I'd say they have a better shot at being right than a belief system that is only 150 years old and based on one man's teaching and his self-proclaimed inspiration. Be like the Bereans! Test the spirits!!! God gave us His written WORD and the Holy Spirit to guide our understanding in TRUTH. They BOTH go together... a piece of God's Armor, which is the "sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." [Ephesians 6:17b] When anyone tells you NOT to think but to just be "spiritual", they underestimate the power of the Enemy who is a prowling lion out to deceive and trap. 150 years old? Please explain. Although there have been many who have denied the deity of Jesus over the years, it wasn't until the mid-1800's that it took root with two movements that stated a belief in Jesus Christ as Savior but not as God. One of those movements was the Jehovah's Witnesses originally known as Bible Students, which was founded in the late 1870s by Charles Taze Russell. It wasn't until 1882 that he began rejecting the concept of the Trinity and subsequently taught that Jesus was not God contradicting the claims of Christ. The organization has even gone as far to publish their own translation of the Bible known as the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT)...and in doing so rewrote John 1:1 to read, ""In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God." The source they used was Philo of Alexandria who was a Hellenized Jewish philosopher... not a source I would use. ...and yes, some early Christians believed Philio but it never took hold in the early Church. Ok, but this is not my church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneB Posted August 29, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 232 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 7,261 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/19/1959 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Ok, but this is not my church. I didn't say it was. I was just pointing out when and how the apostasy crept into mainstream Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahweh is salvation Posted August 30, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 124 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/19/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2007 Ok, but this is not my church. I didn't say it was. I was just pointing out when and how the apostasy crept into mainstream Christianity. And I'm saying that I don't listen or belong to any church denomination, only Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnForChrist Posted August 30, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 81 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/21/1990 Share Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) Ok, but this is not my church. I didn't say it was. I was just pointing out when and how the apostasy crept into mainstream Christianity. Jude 1:4 "For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." These apostasies and heresies have ALWAYS been around, in the old testament, even at the beginning of the early church. These are Satan's ministers and preachers, natural brute beast meant to be caught and destroyed (2 Peter 2:12). Many deny the trinity, the divinity of Christ, even the Holy Spirit as GOD, another things such as the Godhead, and other things that pertain to the TRUTH. They spread lies like a pandemic. John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” The LORD Jesus Christ told us about them: "For false Christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." (Matthew 24:24) Paul tells us in Acts 20:30 "Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves." ALWAYS in scripture do we see and are warned by this. The TRUTH is so vital, as the LORD said "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) Thats why we are called to bear arms in this TRUTH war against the enemy, thats why its so important to get into the Word and equip ourselves with this truth, as Wayne said be like the bereans . Speaking the TRUTH in love, Burn Edited August 30, 2007 by BurnForChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thejjman Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 [quote name='Rebmilc' date='Aug 2 2007, 04:40 PM' post The problem with JW"s is they believe Jesus is a secondary god not GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH as1TIMOTHY 3.16 TEACHES !!!!! Their bilble does not say that theirs says a god Note the fact that they deny the deity of CHRIST !!!!!! The error of the Jehovah's Witnesses is essentially that of Arius. Jesus was not fully God, not fully man, but a third thing: An "exalted" man. He has ascended into Glory and power and theology states that the prexstience of Christ is He the Angel of the Lord being this one individual angel or messeger whom Isreal feared. But He create All things for Him by Him to glrify Himself through love and faith and was born to destroy the works of the devil. He is the revelation of Gods charactor so that we may have life and have it more abudantly with whom sent Him. Sry for the wording its just weird way of thinking. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraught Posted August 30, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Share Posted August 30, 2007 believing that the son IS God. NO! The bible does not teach this as a necessity for salvation. Otherwise the whole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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