Naming the Name of Christ

[tsth]

1 Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. 4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

AND THEN:

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is all there st.worm.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[st. Worm]

1 Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. 4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

AND THEN:

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is all there st.worm.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Yep, and inserting your very own emphasis added will not change the fact that Paul is referring to the struggle with sin in the life of a believer which he surely was.

sw

[eric]

I have read through this thread, Suzanne and for what it's worth I support each of your posts. Temptation is not a sin, but yielding to it, when you know it is a sin. is going back to square one. We all stumble, unintentionally, depending a lot on how long you have been walking in darkness. Old habits die hard. I used to swear like a mule skinner and sometimes when something doesn't go right, I might let out a cuss word or two. That is just one 'for instance' but it does not make me a sinner in the true sense of the word. I don't do it publically so as to offend folk.

satan never pointed a gun at adam's head and said eat, He did on his own volition, fully knowing the cosequences. People do the same thing now, day after day and will try a wangle some sort of scripture to try and cover their actions. There are no grey areas in the bible.

cheers.

eric.

[Scarletprayers]

It's not instantanious, it is something that needs work. Like a fine piece of art or tapestry. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither are we.

So, wouldn't it be more profitable/edifying to teach from the passages I posted? Why walk in gray?

I never understand WHY there is always opposition to these teachings? Why would we want to go any other direction? These things are profitable and good.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Do you never sin? Never tempted??? So if your answer is yes, and it must be if your telling the truth since the word says "all sin" are you saved????

[JLW001]

I think this discussion must be brought to consideration of living in "sin". While it is a fact that all Christians sin, the blood of Jesus erases those sin when we come to Him in TRUE REPENTENCE . If we do not repent of our sins, then Jesus has not forgiven them as 1 John clearly reveals.

A Christian does not want to sin. (See Pauls writings in Romans) There is no other way of expressing it. Those who are born again are born of the Spirit and if we are born of the Spirit, then we must walk according to the Spirit. If we walk according to the Spirit, then we will not "live" in sin. How can someone serve God and serve sin? We are either a "slave" to God or a slave to sin. There is no in between. So, those who walk according to the Spirit, walk trying to please God and when we stumble, we go to Jesus and repent and are forgiven. Those who walk accoding to the flesh seek to please the flesh and not God and are living in sin.

How can someone born of God be a practicing homosexual? What part does God have with satan? If you are a homosexual, you have my uptmost concern. Not only do you sin against your Father, but you also sin against your own body and will reap the consequences. However, if you were a homosexual and you have been born again, then you are no longer a slave of that sin and thus you will not practice that lifestyle. Will you fall into lust and commit sins of the heart? Yes, but with God you will overcome. Will a homosexual person who has been born again live the "lifestyle" and continue to commit such acts? No!

So, if you know someone who is a practicing homosexual and claims to be born again, you can assured that the delivering power of Jesus Christ is NOT at work in them. Jesus Christ is powerful and the Spirit of God will deliver you from sin. As I said, you may continue to commit sins of the heart, but you will not live in sin if you are born again. Willfully continuing in sin after coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ means that there is no more sacrifice for you. Paul clearly mentions this. To be forgiven of willfully living in sin after coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ would require Jesus to be crucified again and the Father is not willing for that to happen again. Willfully living in sin after coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ is the same as calling Jesus' sacrifice ineffective and slandering our most precious Lord.

[JLW001]

Let me also add that if you were a homosexual and were born again and in a moment of weakness committed a physical act, but after doing so you truly repented of it, then Jesus sacrifice is there for you. I was speaking about those who continue in that lifestyle, while claiming to be saved by grace, through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Edited August 4, 2007 by JLW001

[eric]

From cobolt1959.

I don't take this to mean we are suddenly without sin. It means we are going to sin, and that we must confess it and work to cure it, with Christ's help. We can't do it on our own. Someone who is sinning regularly with no conviction about it has a problem. How can anyone believe they are just going to suddenly "stop" sinning? People struggle with homosexuality just as other people struggle with alcohol, drugs, smoking, [insert your own here]. It's a daily battle. That's what Paul is saying, not that the battle was suddenly over once he came to know Jesus.

you make a good point here, it's seldom a person can go cold turkey and give up something in the way of sinning that he/she has been practising for a great length of time. I was sixty plus when I was led to Christ by conviction of the H/S. Man I was carrying around a ton of garbage at the time. boozing, talking foul talk, but ,so heavy was my conviction, I dug my toes in and was determined to turm my life around, but I had help, from family, from my pastor and the small church I was attending and now after more than twenty years down the track and keeping in the word, I can walk with my head held high, not that I am perfect by any measure, but I make repentance a daily practice.

What has helped for the last five years is being a member of worthy. and being open to what the more knowlageable have to pass on.

JLWOO1, you make some good points. Being truly repentant is the only answer.

cheers.

[7thseal]

Its not for me to judge ones heart...but I know Christ will and His judgment is righteous and true.

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matthew 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

God knows who loves Him through Jesus Christ, and in the end we to will know.

[Floatingaxe]

I think this discussion must be brought to consideration of living in "sin". While it is a fact that all Christians sin, the blood of Jesus erases those sin when we come to Him in TRUE REPENTENCE . If we do not repent of our sins, then Jesus has not forgiven them as 1 John clearly reveals.

A Christian does not want to sin. (See Pauls writings in Romans) There is no other way of expressing it. Those who are born again are born of the Spirit and if we are born of the Spirit, then we must walk according to the Spirit. If we walk according to the Spirit, then we will not "live" in sin. How can someone serve God and serve sin? We are either a "slave" to God or a slave to sin. There is no in between. So, those who walk according to the Spirit, walk trying to please God and when we stumble, we go to Jesus and repent and are forgiven. Those who walk accoding to the flesh seek to please the flesh and not God and are living in sin.

How can someone born of God be a practicing homosexual? What part does God have with satan? If you are a homosexual, you have my uptmost concern. Not only do you sin against your Father, but you also sin against your own body and will reap the consequences. However, if you were a homosexual and you have been born again, then you are no longer a slave of that sin and thus you will not practice that lifestyle. Will you fall into lust and commit sins of the heart? Yes, but with God you will overcome. Will a homosexual person who has been born again live the "lifestyle" and continue to commit such acts? No!

So, if you know someone who is a practicing homosexual and claims to be born again, you can assured that the delivering power of Jesus Christ is NOT at work in them. Jesus Christ is powerful and the Spirit of God will deliver you from sin. As I said, you may continue to commit sins of the heart, but you will not live in sin if you are born again. Willfully continuing in sin after coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ means that there is no more sacrifice for you. Paul clearly mentions this. To be forgiven of willfully living in sin after coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ would require Jesus to be crucified again and the Father is not willing for that to happen again. Willfully living in sin after coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ is the same as calling Jesus' sacrifice ineffective and slandering our most precious Lord.

Wonderful post, declaring the truth! May God bless you today!

[tsth]

Dear Cobalt,

You might want to go ahead and look into the rest of the Book you started from, 1 John.

It will also support what I have been speaking.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

11 This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.

There were at least 2 occasions in Scripture where Jesus tells to "stop sinning". When we continue to do those things that we know are disobedient to God, we had better stop and examine ourselves.

Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

In His Love,

Suzanne