Guest Biblicist Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 But Suzanne. . . 8 For it is by GRACE you have been saved, through faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 This is true, as well as: James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. 20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. You must have the WHOLE counsel of God that works together. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkNebulaWelder Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 98 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 580 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2007 The secret to Titus 2 is TEACHING. These are things that are learned. If a person has not learned that their particular sin is actually sin, then how are they to know? How can they know lest they be taught? It is obvious through Titus 2 that the elder men and women are responsible to teach the younger ones. I agree, and that is where the term "practicing" comes in. If we know something to be sin, and continue in it wilfully, what then? Does this define who believes what God says and fears Him in regard to it, or can one not be reverent of God and disregard what His Holy Spirit has clearly told us is sin? That then is to "practice" lawlessness isn't it? To know better and yet continue in it/practice it. In His Love, Suzanne Suzanne....define "willfully." Where does addiction come into play? Everytime a heroin addict shoots up, that person is breaking the law, thus sinning....BUT..... did he do it "willfully," or "unwillfully" due to the addiction? Is a person's will stifled when that person is addicted? If so, and the addict continues giving in, is that willful sin, or unwillful sin? This can apply to any substance...even cigarrettes and marijuana. I guess my question is...what if that addict truly loves the Lord, but is having trouble resisiting the addiction, and that person is truly repentant after he/she stumbles, but continues even when he/she desires to stop. Would that be willful sin or unwillful sin? I ask this because "unwillful sin" seems to be where grace is applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2007 The secret to Titus 2 is TEACHING. These are things that are learned. If a person has not learned that their particular sin is actually sin, then how are they to know? How can they know lest they be taught? It is obvious through Titus 2 that the elder men and women are responsible to teach the younger ones. I agree, and that is where the term "practicing" comes in. If we know something to be sin, and continue in it wilfully, what then? Does this define who believes what God says and fears Him in regard to it, or can one not be reverent of God and disregard what His Holy Spirit has clearly told us is sin? That then is to "practice" lawlessness isn't it? To know better and yet continue in it/practice it. In His Love, Suzanne Suzanne....define "willfully." Where does addiction come into play? Everytime a heroin addict shoots up, that person is breaking the law, thus sinning....BUT..... did he do it "willfully," or "unwillfully" due to the addiction? Is a person's will stifled when that person is addicted? If so, and the addict continues giving in, is that willful sin, or unwillful sin? This can apply to any substance...even cigarrettes and marijuana. I guess my question is...what if that addict truly loves the Lord, but is having trouble resisiting the addiction, and that person is truly repentant after he/she stumbles, but continues even when he/she desires to stop. Would that be willful sin or unwillful sin? I ask this because "unwillful sin" seems to be where grace is applied. James 4:17--"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is sin." The addict scenario above you have given does not take a persons freewill away to make a choice every day to stick a needle in his arm they have freewill choice everyday to not do it or do it that hasn't been taken away or stiffened. If a person gives in to shooting herion that person knows they could and will get addicted and they overlook the consequence of their actions and become dependent on herion. So what ends up happening in this case is that person looses their freedom they had in Christ and has went back and again entangled themselves in bondage to sin. That person is the only one who can make those same chooses to seek help and get out of the sin of drug addiction as they still have freewill and choices to act upon every day. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2007 Suzanne....define "willfully." Where does addiction come into play? Everytime a heroin addict shoots up, that person is breaking the law, thus sinning....BUT..... did he do it "willfully," or "unwillfully" due to the addiction? Is a person's will stifled when that person is addicted? If so, and the addict continues giving in, is that willful sin, or unwillful sin? This can apply to any substance...even cigarrettes and marijuana. I guess my question is...what if that addict truly loves the Lord, but is having trouble resisiting the addiction, and that person is truly repentant after he/she stumbles, but continues even when he/she desires to stop. Would that be willful sin or unwillful sin? I ask this because "unwillful sin" seems to be where grace is applied. Dear DNW, Here is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. If a person is a true believer in Christ Jesus, doesn't the impact of a mighty God come into play in our hearts and minds? And doesn't that Almighty God have power, even to defeat death itself? So, this same God, that we earnestly claim that we follow and believe, doesn't He have the power to defeat sin, IF He can defeat death? Or, does it come down to our belief? Maybe we do not believe how great He Is? Which is greater, the love and belief in the power of God and HIS claims? OR the desire for the drug? Does Jesus coexist in us with herione? Meth? etc.? Or, does He have the power to defeat ANY temptation? I find it hard to believe in addictions for a the Christian, especially when we read God's Word and understand the Majesty and Power of our Almighty God. He Is An All Consuming Fire! What do we believe about Him? Here is what we should know and believe about Him: 1 Cor. 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie B Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 119 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1951 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi tsth, In my last post you choose not to anwser in your own words, or not to anwser at all since you answered in scripture i don't know if that was to my post or somebody elses.But it seems to me that when you don't have a clear answer in your own mind, you try to answer by scripture.And by your scripture answers it seems you have a incorrect interpretation of Rom 7 which leads you to believe you can live a sinless life. Love in Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi tsth, In my last post you choose not to anwser in your own words, or not to anwser at all since you answered in scripture i don't know if that was to my post or somebody elses.But it seems to me that when you don't have a clear answer in your own mind, you try to answer by scripture.And by your scripture answers it seems you have a incorrect interpretation of Rom 7 which leads you to believe you can live a sinless life. Love in Christ Dear Eddie, I have clarified SEVERAL times what I am talking about. I don't know why you keep asking me the same question over and over again. I don't intend to keep repeating myself. You're welcome to go back and read my postings on this thread OR the Naming the Name of Christ thread. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2007 Dear Eddie, Just for clarifications sake, you can look at page 4 of the "Naming the Name of Christ" Thread. For the response to Romans 7 question. In His Love, Suzanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie B Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 119 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/03/1951 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi tsth, In my last post you choose not to anwser in your own words, or not to anwser at all since you answered in scripture i don't know if that was to my post or somebody elses.But it seems to me that when you don't have a clear answer in your own mind, you try to answer by scripture.And by your scripture answers it seems you have a incorrect interpretation of Rom 7 which leads you to believe you can live a sinless life. Love in Christ Dear Eddie, I have clarified SEVERAL times what I am talking about. I don't know why you keep asking me the same question over and over again. I don't intend to keep repeating myself. You're welcome to go back and read my postings on this thread OR the Naming the Name of Christ thread. In His Love, Suzanne Hi tsth, I went to your thread Naming the name of Christ pg. 4 as well as to the beginning of this thread and I still stand by what I said in this post you avoid the ?. But I do thank you for answering me in your own words this time. I understand what you are saying. Thats why I asked the ?. Let me say it this way your interpertation of Rom 7 is WRONG! Thats what you are avoiding to answer. Love in Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted August 14, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi tsth, In my last post you choose not to anwser in your own words, or not to anwser at all since you answered in scripture i don't know if that was to my post or somebody elses.But it seems to me that when you don't have a clear answer in your own mind, you try to answer by scripture.And by your scripture answers it seems you have a incorrect interpretation of Rom 7 which leads you to believe you can live a sinless life. Love in Christ Dear Eddie, I have clarified SEVERAL times what I am talking about. I don't know why you keep asking me the same question over and over again. I don't intend to keep repeating myself. You're welcome to go back and read my postings on this thread OR the Naming the Name of Christ thread. In His Love, Suzanne Hi tsth, I went to your thread Naming the name of Christ pg. 4 as well as to the beginning of this thread and I still stand by what I said in this post you avoid the ?. But I do thank you for answering me in your own words this time. I understand what you are saying. Thats why I asked the ?. Let me say it this way your interpertation of Rom 7 is WRONG! Thats what you are avoiding to answer. Love in Christ Hello Eddie, I just want to say that your interpretation of being wrong is only that your interpretation. But I noticed that you gave no clarification to what was wrong or no interpretation from your side of the coin why is that? It would help me as a reader to know your side. It's easy to knock the step ladder out from under someone with words but with scripture it's another story. You should straighten us out if you are sure you are correct. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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