Legalism

[tsth]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

I TOTALLY agree with the above comment, especially the parts I bolded!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Shortstop]

How do we encourage holiness without being called legalistic? Should Christians as a group look and act differently from society at large? Is Church discipline ever needed in today

[Wingwalker]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

I have looked as legalism as expecting others to live as I do. If you dont do this as I do this, you are not pleasing God type of mentatlity. Since a person feels to live a certain way because of their faith in God, it is legalism to tell others that they must live as they do to be called Christian.

A way to be encouraging to others without being legalistic, is to be loving unconditionally. To allow the Holy Spirit withing the person to convict him/her of their own behaviors. We can show them what we do and why we do it, but we dont tell them that they have to do as we do.

[tsth]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

I have looked as legalism as expecting others to live as I do. If you dont do this as I do this, you are not pleasing God type of mentatlity. Since a person feels to live a certain way because of their faith in God, it is legalism to tell others that they must live as they do to be called Christian.

A way to be encouraging to others without being legalistic, is to be loving unconditionally. To allow the Holy Spirit withing the person to convict him/her of their own behaviors. We can show them what we do and why we do it, but we dont tell them that they have to do as we do.

But then, how does that align with these? Unless you're only referring to unbelievers???

1 Cor. 5:2

And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?

1 Cor. 5:9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

(This is what SHOULD have taken place within the group of Pharisee AND Sadducees.........they should have been willing to acknowledge what was taking place amongst themselves, and discipline their own hypocrisy, but they were not willing to look at themselves.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

2Co 6:14

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

[Wingwalker]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

I have looked as legalism as expecting others to live as I do. If you dont do this as I do this, you are not pleasing God type of mentatlity. Since a person feels to live a certain way because of their faith in God, it is legalism to tell others that they must live as they do to be called Christian.

A way to be encouraging to others without being legalistic, is to be loving unconditionally. To allow the Holy Spirit withing the person to convict him/her of their own behaviors. We can show them what we do and why we do it, but we dont tell them that they have to do as we do.

But then, how does that align with these? Unless you're only referring to unbelievers???

1 Cor. 5:2

And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?

1 Cor. 5:9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

(This is what SHOULD have taken place within the group of Pharisee AND Sadducees.........they should have been willing to acknowledge what was taking place amongst themselves, and discipline their own hypocrisy, but they were not willing to look at themselves.)

In His Love,

Suzanne

2Co 6:14

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

Paul gives an example of whom we are not to associate with. If we allow this persons in our fellowship, it could cause many more to stumble. These people we need to pray for. However, the matters of circumcision, eating pork, eating with right or left hand, crossing legs when seated, cooking on Sunday or even shopping on Sunday, (and the list will go on and on and on) these issues need not be enforce on other people to secure their salvation. If you do or do not do any one of these, you do or dont do it on your own free will. Others will do or not do on their own free will.

Some of the examples I used mean absolutely nothing to some of you. To others, some of these might be a great big deal on how you live out your life.

Expecting others to do as you do is legalism. Of course, it not works that get us into heaven, so the works that we might do or might not do will not determine if we are heaven bound. It is by faith we are saved. It is by faith that we live our lives, not by works, though we work to live.

So please do not comdemn me for working on Sunday.

[Axxman]

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

This is a totally correct statement. I think most people are legalistic about legalism.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

2 Tim 4:2-3 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

1 john 2:3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

We are told as Christians to keep each other in check...and yet ANYTIME a person is called out for not following God's commandments they throw out the legalism card. It is a cheap and sinful tactic to deflect attention away from your shortcomings and toss accusations at a fellow believer.

Freedom in Christ has NOTHING to do with a persons right to ignore the commands of God and follow whatever worldliness they desire.

1 John 2:4-5 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a Liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: Hereby know we that we are in him."

[Guest DYChowmah]

Legallism

A word you just aint gonna find in the bible. Its a word that is used by those who practice iniquity. I cant imagine what they will say to Jesus. We have cast out devils in your name...so on and so forth. What will they say to Him in "that day"? Save me Jesus! Im an illegallist. I did nothing you commanded me to do. YIKES!

ISAIAH 30 [8] Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: [9] That this is A REBELLIOUS PEOPLE, lying children, children THAT WILL NOT HEAR THE LAW OF THE LORD: [10] WHICH SAY to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, SPEAK UNTO US SMOOTH THINGS, prophesy deceits: 11] Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

Anyone know Who the Holy One of Israel is? Youll find Him in your new testaments

Edited August 24, 2007 by DYChowmah

[patricia1]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

I have looked as legalism as expecting others to live as I do. If you dont do this as I do this, you are not pleasing God type of mentatlity. Since a person feels to live a certain way because of their faith in God, it is legalism to tell others that they must live as they do to be called Christian.

A way to be encouraging to others without being legalistic, is to be loving unconditionally. To allow the Holy Spirit withing the person to convict him/her of their own behaviors. We can show them what we do and why we do it, but we dont tell them that they have to do as we do.

hello there... I really like everyones replies. Oops Martin you have such great wisom and knowledge working there together...

whenwe go before a brother or sister who has sin that we are aware of and it is done according to how the Word of God tells us it usually works out. It is done in a attitude of LOVE. They could not recieve what you have to say accusing you of making a judgement on the. You know your heart and so does God. Normally That person will stay in the church and hopefully go before God and change will happen. He may leave the church insulted no matter how loving you are. But if God calls you and asks you to do this... You have been obedient and the rest is up to God. If He remains inthe church still in a state of sin The elders and the pastor should be notifyed. I have really nevr done anything without my Pastors okay and a objective person with me.

The other night i left my home to go to a place most christians don't go with someone to meet me there. A young man I was to wait for to tell him something fromthe Lord. After a hour, and sitting with my friend he walks in...my friend said how do you know with all this people here. I said sometimes God can give you the ability to see the lost lamb in a snakepit.

I nicely walked over to this person,He was Huge, I tapped him on the shoulder..I said Jesus sent me...He said .."oh,man in not a wanting way. He is 22. He said go outside I will talk to you. and I did. and he came ten minutes later with his head bopping back and forth. We have never seen each other. But he heard and understood..and thanked me... then Later walked in with his friend he came with ,drove him home. That 22 year old I know I will see him... But it was recieved because it was not done in a hateful accusitory way. That Kid must have some pretty powerful prayer warriors on his side, Jesus will not let him go. But there is a way to do things and not everytime will you see fruit, you may be sowing a seed, or watering a seed for later years. but that is my take on those two questions.

[Smalcald]

I am not sure I know any of the answers; I just wondered what people thought. I think it is related to legalism, which in my mind is also sin.

I agree totally that it does have something to do with adding to scripture and a mindset which involves binding others without looking to ourselves. The term itself was not used, but it actually goes to some of what Luther originally rightfully criticized the Roman Church about and which sparked the Reformation. The idea of performing religious duties that had nothing to do with scripture or with faith in Christ, but were simply formalities and ritual and doctrines of men and which were used as a weapon by the leaders, this is legalism to me. At some level it denies faith and is a works based mentality.

At the same time I do think that sometimes anybody who brings up the importance of striving for holiness, of battling against the works of the flesh, or even sin itself, and particularly how to encourage people through discipline get accused of being legalistic.

I have looked as legalism as expecting others to live as I do. If you dont do this as I do this, you are not pleasing God type of mentatlity. Since a person feels to live a certain way because of their faith in God, it is legalism to tell others that they must live as they do to be called Christian.

A way to be encouraging to others without being legalistic, is to be loving unconditionally. To allow the Holy Spirit withing the person to convict him/her of their own behaviors. We can show them what we do and why we do it, but we dont tell them that they have to do as we do.

Hi berribear,

I know what you mean.

However I have seen cases where I have friends who are looking to me for my approval or not, and my silence to them is approval! So it is very hard indeed. I also think today many people are just confused about what sin is and what it does as many things society takes as normal today are indeed sinful. So I think we do have some sort of a role or duty to show unrepentant sinners the truth.

Christ did both, to those who did not see their sin at all, He pointed it out; to those who saw their sin and were sorry He offered total forgiveness and comfort. This is the double edged sword of Christianity. I have no idea how to do that correctly though it is something I struggle with all of the time. Being judgmental is also a sin, not to mention a burden which turns us bitter on the inside.

[TM75]

Legallism

A word you just aint gonna find in the bible. Its a word that is used by those who practice iniquity. I cant imagine what they will say to Jesus. We have cast out devils in your name...so on and so forth. What will they say to Him in "that day"? Save me Jesus! Im an illegallist. I did nothing you commanded me to do. YIKES!

ISAIAH 30 [8] Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: [9] That this is A REBELLIOUS PEOPLE, lying children, children THAT WILL NOT HEAR THE LAW OF THE LORD: [10] WHICH SAY to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, SPEAK UNTO US SMOOTH THINGS, prophesy deceits: 11] Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

Anyone know Who the Holy One of Israel is? Youll find Him in your new testaments

One cries legalism because they are used to such commandments of men that bind big packs on men's shoulders.

The rough word of God will do nothing for you if you've had a pardon from one of the daughters of Babylon.

How my people is become foolish, they ask counsel at their stocks, and for its a people of no understanding.

2 Peter 3: (W.tyndale N.T)

12 looking for, and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, in which the heavens shall perish with fire, and the elements shall be consumed with heat.

13 Nevertheless we look for a new heaven, and a new earth, according to his promise, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore dearly beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot and undefiled: