Baptism for the dead?

[Guest Greg Davies]

Paraphrased in The Message, it says,

1 Corinthians 15:29

Why do you think people offer themselves to be baptized for those already in the grave? If there's no chance of resurrection for a corpse, if God's power stops at the cemetery gates, why do we keep doing things that suggest he's going to clean the place out someday, pulling everyone up on their feet alive?

...meaning that those who want to do such things aren't right, but the human reasoning behind it is that the dead do not stay dead in the grave. Skewed logic for them, but based on a truth.

Yes, Paul was basically pointing to a pagan practice to show that even pagans understood that there was life after death

This is all bearing witness with me, thank you. Greg.

[Massorite]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

[Eliyahuw]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

[Eliyahuw]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

Then please explain this verse -

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What does repent consist of? First of all, repent is a synechdoche that is a word used as teh sum of all the parts. REpent includes, salvation, and turning away from sin. Then you can be baptized because your sins have been cleaned away BY THE BLOOD, not the baptism.

We are baptized FOR the remission of sins. Remit means to take away.

water doesn't clean sin away, christs blood did that. To say that baptizm washes your sins away says that Christs sacrifice ment nothing!

Romans 6:3-8 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

This also supports that Baptizm is representative/symbolism, of what we do. IT doesn't support that baptizm washes away sins!

These verses say that the body of sin is destroyed and we are freed from sin.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

This says that those who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Baptism by fire not by water.

This sounds like a lot more than just getting wet. You say that people who get baptized just get wet, but the bible says that those who get baptized get the remission of sins, are buried and raised with Christ, have the body of sin destroyed, is freed from sin, and have put on Christ.

I don't know about you, but I would rather believe the bible.

Sorry but yeah if you get baptised without salvation all you do is get wet. Baptism cannot save you! It cannot do anything for you. All it is is a outward sign of a inner change when it is done.

All sin is paid for already. It has been paid for, for over 2000 year. All that one has to do is be saved and its covered in the blood. Baptism doesn't wash sin away. has nothing to do with washing of sin.

I don't know about you, but i would rather believe christ, and put my trust in him, have his blood wash my sins away, than i would in getting dunked in a pool of water.

[Massorite]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in Christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

That is true. You can also be saved all day long but with the follow through of baptism ones soul never gets cleansed of old sin. Committing ones life to Christ is only the first step down the road to salvation. The next step is to begin to obey Christ and Christ tells us to be baptized after we except Him as our Lord and Saviour. It is my belief that the Holy Spirit will not nor can it inhabit a soul which is filled with the ugly dirtiness of sin and it is only after we are cleansed that we can feel alive in Christ. When I was saved it wasn't until after I came up out of that water that I felt the presents of Christ within me and it hit me like a tone of bricks.

Obedience is where it is at. One is no good without the other. After recieving Christ if one refuses to be baptized it is a sin of pride.

[Eliyahuw]

That is true. You can also be saved all day long but with the follow through of baptism ones soul never gets cleansed of old sin. Committing ones life to Christ is only the first step down the road to salvation. The next step is to begin to obey Christ and Christ tells us to be baptized after we except Him as our Lord and Saviour. It is my belief that the Holy Spirit will not nor can it inhabit a soul which is filled with the ugly dirtiness of sin and it is only after we are cleansed that we can feel alive in Christ. When I was saved it wasn't until after I came up out of that water that I felt the presents of Christ within me and it hit me like a tone of bricks.

Obedience is where it is at. One is no good without the other. After recieving Christ if one refuses to be baptized it is a sin of pride.

sorry but Baptism doesn't wash away any sin. thats what Christs blood does.

Gen 42:22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.

Exd 30:10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it [is] most holy unto the LORD.

Lev 4:25 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering.

Notice in the OT to cleanse sin, blood was required to wash away the sin.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

OHhh wow look at this! His Blood, not baptism, but his BLOOD, cleanseth us from ALL sin, not past sins, present sins, or future sins, but ALL past, present and future sins. NO BAPTISM REQUIRED!

Walking in the light is using the reasoning ability of our mind to understand moral and spiritual truth.

next verse says

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

SO if we're walking in the light, and in fellowship with christ and say we have no sin, or that we don't or can't sin, then we're decieving ourselves. BUT that doesn't mean we're condemned because were washed by his blood.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Note all we have to do is confess our sin if we commit sin. IF baptism washes away past sin like you said, then that means we would have to be baptized every day!

[Eliyahuw]

We practice exactly what it says here because that is the way the bible was written. You account that it baptism was taking away from what Christ did on the cross. That is absurd. Because of what Christ did on the cross is exactly why I would follow exactly what he said.

Peter just convinced thousands of people they just crucified the the Christ and after they asked him what they should do he told them and 3,000 people did it. When I was convinced I was a sinner I did exactly what these scriptures said.

I read where it said that if I believe and and baptized I will be save and believed and did it.

Just because people do what is told to us to do in the scriptures does not take away from anything that Christ did on the cross. We follow all the scriptures and do them because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This means that we have to believe and follow ALL the scriptures. Not just what we want to.

Geeeze card, i didn't need you to rewrite the bible in this post. Just because you can cherry pick 50 -100 verses to make your theory hold some water, doesn't mean its the truth. i personally don't have the time to go through each verese you quite and point out the context of what that verse was given since i live offgrid and rely on battery power.

These verses tell you what is required for salvation.

john 3:16, for God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life.

no baptism required!

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Again NO BAPTISM REQUIRED!

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Again card, NO BAPTISM REQUIRED!

Cardcaptor, don't ya think if Baptism was required, that these passages would include that!???

this is only a few passages that show that NO BAPTISM IS REQUIRED, but i don't have the battery power to go through and list them all. I can come up with as many if not twice as many verses as you can that show that NO BAPTISM IS REQUIRED.

CONTEXT card captor, your taking those verses way out of context!

IF You teach baptism is required for salvation, you spit on the sacrifice that christ made for us! it is pure heresy to teach baptism saves us. the ONLY THING that saves us is the grace of God and Christs sacrifice on the cross.

[Eliyahuw]

Baptism brings us from being dead to Christ to being alive in Christ. The argument in this verse is this. What good is it to be baptized if we are going to remain dead IE To continue to live a life of unrepented sin which means the baptizee would still be dead to Christ even after baptism which would be wasted effort.

HUH? Salvation brings us alive in christ not baptism. You can be baptized all day long and all you will get is wet, it does nothing to save us from our sins!

Then please explain this verse -

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What does repent consist of? First of all, repent is a synechdoche that is a word used as teh sum of all the parts. REpent includes, salvation, and turning away from sin. Then you can be baptized because your sins have been cleaned away BY THE BLOOD, not the baptism.

We are baptized FOR the remission of sins. Remit means to take away.

water doesn't clean sin away, christs blood did that. To say that baptizm washes your sins away says that Christs sacrifice ment nothing!

Romans 6:3-8 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

This also supports that Baptizm is representative/symbolism, of what we do. IT doesn't support that baptizm washes away sins!

These verses say that the body of sin is destroyed and we are freed from sin.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

This says that those who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Baptism by fire not by water.

This sounds like a lot more than just getting wet. You say that people who get baptized just get wet, but the bible says that those who get baptized get the remission of sins, are buried and raised with Christ, have the body of sin destroyed, is freed from sin, and have put on Christ.

I don't know about you, but I would rather believe the bible.

Sorry but yeah if you get baptised without salvation all you do is get wet. Baptism cannot save you! It cannot do anything for you. All it is is a outward sign of a inner change when it is done.

All sin is paid for already. It has been paid for, for over 2000 year. All that one has to do is be saved and its covered in the blood. Baptism doesn't wash sin away. has nothing to do with washing of sin.

I don't know about you, but i would rather believe christ, and put my trust in him, have his blood wash my sins away, than i would in getting dunked in a pool of water.

I have heard all of this before and it is just another way to justify away parts of the bible to not mean what they do.

What your offering is heresy

[Openly Curious]

I've always been mytified by I Cor 15:29. Can someone explain this verse to me? Thanks

There were some that had crept into the church at Corinth and were overthrowing the faith of the believers.

1 Corinthians 15:12-20--"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how "say some" among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen. And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised. And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain "ye are yet in your sins" Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead and becaome the firstfruits of them that sleep."

As I had said earlier there were some that had crept into the churches and were teaching that the resurrection had already past or taken place and this teaching was overthrowing the faith of some in the church as some had began to believe there was no resurrection of the dead. Apostle Paul was correcting the Corinthians church as he had to do on many things but the jist of Paul's message was if Christ was not risen from the dead then they who believe that there is no resurrection were still in their sins and their faith was indeed in vain. As everything we as Christians believe is based on the fact that Christ did indeed conquer the last enemy to be conquered for us and that was death itself.

1 Corinthians 15:26--"The last enemy "that shall" be destroyed is death."

There were false apostles I'm sure in all of the churches teaching false doctrines of many kinds that Paul had established through his missionary journey's. As their are false teachers and such in the churches today that we must be aware of as apostle Paul had wrote young Timothy about to be aware of as this could have been where the Corinthian church first heard about this false doctrine that the resurrection has already passed.

2 Timothy 2:16-18--"But shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker of whom is Hymanaeus and Philetus: Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

So, I personally believe that these were the people that were teaching this at the Corinthian church as apostle Paul here I think is thinking back on these two and the damage that they had caused to people's faith destroying it and was warning Timothy to beware of this kind of thing creeping into the church. As basically the whole 15th chapter of Corinthians is dealing with there being a resurrection for the believers and there being some who had embraced their was not a resurrection to happen. Anyways I hope I have made a little since.

OC

[one of peace]

I've always been mytified by I Cor 15:29. Can someone explain this verse to me? Thanks

This is not talking about people being baptized for other people alive or dead. This verse is bouncing off of the resurrection of Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:12-14 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

There were people here that did not believe in the resurrection of Christ.

We are baptized into Christ's death and raised unto his resurrection -

Romans 6:3-5 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

That is why Paul made the statement he did in I Cor 15:29

Baptism is actually an ancient ritual that was performed by Ancient Tama-reans(egyptians) that predates the christianity. It was performed before they entered a holy place. Something similar to what the Muslims do before they enter the Mas.

If what you say that pagans baptised you are probably confused with the preperation of the body. They cleaned the body with water, frankincense and myrrah. In the bible Mary M., Simon,and Mary came to prepare jesus' body. Luke 24:1 Its not pagan at all but normal. A dead body will rot.

Baptising was merely a physical cleansing before entering a holy place. True cleansing is in the spirit. Leave all your hate, lust, and fear at the door this is a holy place. Unclean thoughts are not welcomed.

Was Jesus baptised? In the bible did John clean his body or his spirit?